Steve Clarke - in/out/general discussion

[TONTROOPER]

2 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Folk need to remember we're basically the Partick Thistle of the NL top tier. Promoted hopefuls, who are getting standard results in the top flight - single goal defeats against the better sides - where in each we've looked good in patches - isn't world-ending.

Take a big step back, 1 win in 14 is f**king atrocious, definitely, but a bit of perspective is needed here. Romped our way to the Euros, but have hit the skids since. Northern Ireland apart, we've not been on the end of any ridiculous defeats (Germany is the exception, being the opener to the Euros with so much expectation and attention).

I want better, but I'm wary of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Agree almost entirely but shirley we're not as bad as Partick!

[JS_FFC]

11 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Folk need to remember we're basically the Partick Thistle of the NL top tier. Promoted hopefuls, who are getting standard results in the top flight - single goal defeats against the better sides - where in each we've looked good in patches - which isn't world-ending.

Take a big step back, 1 win in 14 is f**king atrocious, definitely, but a bit of perspective is needed here. Romped our way to the Euros, but have hit the skids since. Northern Ireland apart, we've not been on the end of any ridiculous defeats (Germany is the exception, being the opener to the Euros with so much expectation and attention).

I want better, but I'm wary of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

 

Your first paragraph isn't wrong, and I don't think anyone thinks a 2-1 defeat in Lisbon is the end of the world, but getting beat at home by Poland is absolutely unforgiveable and not the kind of result we'd have seen under Clarke from 2021-2023.

 

Getting relegated back to league B won't be a disaster in itself but going down with a whimper and 6 straight defeats would be horrendous. Remember this tournament is very important for future seeding purposes.

 

I'm Clarke out specifically because there's a manager there who has explicitly said he wants to manage Scotland who has a far better track record than Clarke. Get David Moyes in before a Premier League team snaps him up.

[accies1874]

5 hours ago, ekok said:

Suggest the last 14, not 4 , but 14 results might suggest different.  I have no idea why anyone can't see the obvious problem.  He is a thrawn, self important waste of space.  The only reason his teams have had any success is his luck in inheriting a decent group of players. 

Even tonight,  riding our luck big time, he is so bloody stubborn he waited far too long to change things to see out the game. A draw would have been fine, he hasn't got a clue how to use substitutions to effect. 

 

It's nonsense to suggest that any good thing under Clarke is down to the players and any bad thing is down to him. That's just simply not how football works. 

[RandomGuy.]

Not a fan of Clarkes call ups, or selections, or tactics, a lot of the time, but it's clear there's folk on here who are just revelling in misery now and/or have never liked him and are jumping at the opportunity to slate him.

Claiming losing at home to Poland is "unforgivable" is just wild stuff really. We're riddled with shite keepers and CBs so that puts a cap on what you can actually achieve, especially when coming up against top level players.

I thought last night was much better than the Poland game and let down entirely by a salad wristed keeper and Scott McKenna just not being good enough to defend Ronaldo. You're allowed to say tactics have worked even when you lose.

[JS_FFC]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Not a fan of Clarkes call ups, or selections, or tactics, a lot of the time, but it's clear there's folk on here who are just revelling in misery now and/or have never liked him and are jumping at the opportunity to slate him.

Claiming losing at home to Poland is "unforgivable" is just wild stuff really. We're riddled with shite keepers and CBs so that puts a cap on what you can actually achieve, especially when coming up against top level players.

I thought last night was much better than the Poland game and let down entirely by a salad wristed keeper and Scott McKenna just not being good enough to defend Ronaldo. You're allowed to say tactics have worked even when you lose.

Poland are exactly the level of team we need to be consistently beating on home turf if we are to harbour any ambitions of being at the next Euros as a team that’s actually to be feared and not just there to make up the numbers like we were at the last two, likewise if we harbour any ambitions of making the World Cup in two years.

 

There’s a pretty clear top 9: Spain, France, Germany, England, Portugal, Belgium, Italy, Netherlands and Croatia. 

After that, you’ve got a whole host of nations of roughly similar levels. You’d probably argue Switzerland and Denmark are the pick of the bunch at the moment but in general this is the level you need to punch at if you want to be qualifying for world cups and making the knockout rounds of Euros.

[Arthurlie1981]

50 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Not a fan of Clarkes call ups, or selections, or tactics, a lot of the time, but it's clear there's folk on here who are just revelling in misery now and/or have never liked him and are jumping at the opportunity to slate him.

Claiming losing at home to Poland is "unforgivable" is just wild stuff really. We're riddled with shite keepers and CBs so that puts a cap on what you can actually achieve, especially when coming up against top level players.

I thought last night was much better than the Poland game and let down entirely by a salad wristed keeper and Scott McKenna just not being good enough to defend Ronaldo. You're allowed to say tactics have worked even when you lose.

This. As critical as I have been on Clarke the Poland game (I missed last night) was a marked improvement on the Euro's and leading up to the Euro's. However the criticisms still remain (not going to go through them all again.)

For those going on about who are we going to get that's better? You dont know who might be interested etc. I didn't think Clarke was up to the job, but he was better his predecessors. His time is coming to an end. At this stage I dont think we will qualify for the WC (I hope I am wrong) and weather he goes now or not I believe we are in the end game.

[RandomGuy.]

51 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

Poland are exactly the level of team we need to be consistently beating on home turf if we are to harbour any ambitions of being at the next Euros as a team that’s actually to be feared and not just there to make up the numbers like we were at the last two, likewise if we harbour any ambitions of making the World Cup in two years.

 

There’s a pretty clear top 9: Spain, France, Germany, England, Portugal, Belgium, Italy, Netherlands and Croatia. 

After that, you’ve got a whole host of nations of roughly similar levels. You’d probably argue Switzerland and Denmark are the pick of the bunch at the moment but in general this is the level you need to punch at if you want to be qualifying for world cups and making the knockout rounds of Euros.

There's a difference between thinking we need to be able to beat teams like Poland, and thinking losing to them is "unforgivable".

[Bogbrush1903]

6 hours ago, JS_FFC said:

 

Your first paragraph isn't wrong, and I don't think anyone thinks a 2-1 defeat in Lisbon is the end of the world, but getting beat at home by Poland is absolutely unforgiveable and not the kind of result we'd have seen under Clarke from 2021-2023.

 

Getting relegated back to league B won't be a disaster in itself but going down with a whimper and 6 straight defeats would be horrendous. Remember this tournament is very important for future seeding purposes.

 

I'm Clarke out specifically because there's a manager there who has explicitly said he wants to manage Scotland who has a far better track record than Clarke. Get David Moyes in before a Premier League team snaps him up.

Nor Clarke or Moyes are the answer if we want to improve in our also-ran status.

Improvement would be qualification to the forthcoming World Cup Finals and progress from the group.

We can make excuses all we like for Clarke and this losing run; however, if we persist with this current regime then we aren't going to the World Cup.

Moyes would just be Clark Mk II.

My own club has made an innovative appointment with Thelin, I suggest Scotland do the same.

However, many of the fans seem content with their lot so change is unlikely to happen.

[Butters Scotch]

8 hours ago, TONTROOPER said:

^^^ another individual  moaning his ass off. Shut up you idiot...we conceded because McKenna was determined to keep his eyes on Ronaldo....not the ball.

# oh and I forgot..... Portugal are a better team than us. Sometimes you just have to fes up.

Mckenna was at fault also but he would of not had to defend the cross if Morgan didn't let his marker get past him without any fuss.

The ball had nothing to do with Ronaldo's goal? Ironic you are calling me an idiot with this idiotic response.

[Old Bing]

6 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

Folk need to remember we're basically the Partick Thistle of the NL top tier. Promoted hopefuls, who are getting standard results in the top flight - single goal defeats against the better sides - where in each we've looked good in patches - which isn't world-ending.

Take a big step back, 1 win in 14 is f**king atrocious, definitely, but a bit of perspective is needed here. Romped our way to the Euros, but have hit the skids since. Northern Ireland apart, we've not been on the end of any ridiculous defeats (Germany is the exception, being the opener to the Euros with so much expectation and attention).

I want better, but I'm wary of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Yes in the NL group were in at the moment absolutely were the minnows. But as you say it's an accumulation of results and performances. I'm not sure how Steve Clarke has convinced people he's the only manager out there. 

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Not a fan of Clarkes call ups, or selections, or tactics, a lot of the time, but it's clear there's folk on here who are just revelling in misery now and/or have never liked him and are jumping at the opportunity to slate him.

Claiming losing at home to Poland is "unforgivable" is just wild stuff really. We're riddled with shite keepers and CBs so that puts a cap on what you can actually achieve, especially when coming up against top level players.

I thought last night was much better than the Poland game and let down entirely by a salad wristed keeper and Scott McKenna just not being good enough to defend Ronaldo. You're allowed to say tactics have worked even when you lose.

Losing to Poland at home at the moment is unfortunately unforgivable. It's a perfectly winnable game, one we really needed to win. One of many recently.

Also back to the assertion that anyone wanting rid of clarke because they don't like him is silly. Do people want to keep clarke because instead of judging the results and performances they just really like him?

I don't know steve clarke so personality doesn't come in to it. I did think his press conference before the Poland game was very disingenuous and snide. But frankly I couldn't care if he's the biggest arsehole who ever walked the earth, as long as he's getting the results....... But he's not.

 

Edited September 9 by Old Bing

[Lex]

]

Just seen there's yet international break next month, and ANOTHER one in November too.  What's the most amount of games Scotland have went without winning a competitive game in our history? 

[bennett]

I was never a fan of him,  especially at club level.  His reaction to the abuse Kris Boyd received against left a sour taste, results against Rangers never helped either.

Though he's grown on me since then, aye he can be a bit dour at times but if you look at the team, every single player gives him their all. We're not blessed with superstar players, especially in defence where individual mistakes have cost us.

Two narrow losses in two games shouldn't see him hounded, especially against a quality side like Portugal. 

 

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

]

Just seen there's yet international break next month, and ANOTHER one in November too.  What's the most amount of games Scotland have went without winning a competitive game in our history? 

Eight. And who was the manager that achieved that unwanted feat? 

Oh. It's Steve Clarke. 

[Venti]

Portugal away was always a probable defeat, but with this group of players we are underachieving.

Qualifying for Euros (that has became easy mode) is papering over the cracks.

 

[Ned Nederlander]

I'm reasonably upbeat about the last two games, thought we played some good stuff and there are clearly some decent players coming through - it's been better than I expected tbh

I've seen some utter dugshit over the years supporting Scotland, not even slightly panicked about our recent run - a poor WC qualifying campaign would see Clarke go but not narrow defeats when bottom seeds in the top tier.

[18BAIRN76]

Whether Clarke should stay or go - I’m leaning towards go (I’ve said before that I thought after the disastrous Euros would have been a good time to part ways) - there is not a lot that pisses me off more than when fans who want a manager to stay go “well who else would you get??”, or other variations of the same sentiment. Firstly, there are people who are paid very handsome salaries at the SFA who hold the responsibility for answering that question, not some punters posting on P&B. I always feel it’s a non-argument, because when you say you don’t know, they’ll go “exactly!”, or you suggest someone, the shout is usually rubbished. Whether or not you would trust the SFA to make the right call is, of course, a separate question, but the point still stands.
 

Linked to that, if you believe that Steve Clarke is the only manager who is uniquely capable of getting results with this group of players, i don’t know what to tell you to be honest.

Clarke has obviously done a decent job on the whole, but sometimes you just need someone with fresh ideas and a new perspective and I think that is what this squad would benefit with now.

Edited September 9 by 18BAIRN76

[ArabFC]

4 hours ago, Lex said:

]

Just seen there's yet international break next month, and ANOTHER one in November too.  What's the most amount of games Scotland have went without winning a competitive game in our history? 

I was convinced at the time and still am that scheduling friendlies against England and France either side of Spain was a dumb idea.

Confidence helps in fitba and those pumpings did us little good.

[Old Bing]

11 minutes ago, ArabFC said:

I was convinced at the time and still am that scheduling friendlies against England and France either side of Spain was a dumb idea.

Confidence helps in fitba and those pumpings did us little good.

Me and a few other posters tried to say that at the time. And we're met with the assertion that there is no such thing as form and confidence affecting teams or players in sport and this was a majority view. And now here we are.

Same posters who think we should all back steve, so that tells you something.

[HibeeJibee]

4 hours ago, Lex said:

]

Just seen there's yet international break next month, and ANOTHER one in November too.  What's the most amount of games Scotland have went without winning a competitive game in our history? 

 

3 hours ago, Michael W said:

Eight. And who was the manager that achieved that unwanted feat? 

Oh. It's Steve Clarke. 

Scotland have also never lost more than 4 games in a row before... Italy-England-Netherlands-Portugal in 1966; Northern Ireland-England-Denmark-USSR in 1971; Northern Ireland-England-Switzerland-Brazil in 1973; France-Nigeria-South Korea-South Africa in 2002; Netherlands-Wales-Romania-Denmark in 2003/04; Belgium-Russia-Belgium-Russia in 2019... with only the last being 4 consecutive competitive defeats.

Next month could yet set some very unenviable 'firsts' unfortunately.

[accies1874]

48 minutes ago, ArabFC said:

I was convinced at the time and still am that scheduling friendlies against England and France either side of Spain was a dumb idea.

Confidence helps in fitba and those pumpings did us little good.

I could understand the thinking even if I didn't agree with it, and the Netherlands performance convinced me that it it might have been paying off, but the Euros made it all look very silly.