Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 17 minutes ago, SH Panda said: . Their current team is Robin Le Normand and Aymeric Laporte, two french centre halves. Their star wingers are both 2nd generation African immigrants. I said the Denmark squad is more diverse than the Scottish squad - and they are, quite comfortably.. Yeah I was referring to Spain’s most successful team, you randomly decided to discuss their current Basque centre halves. Yeah Denmark have a few benchwarmers from immigrant backgrounds. Doesn’t really back up your point whatsoever. Scotland’s starting 11 is actually more diverse, and yet somehow we have performed worse. Doesn’t make any sense! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Aye Clarke needs to come out and apologise for that and also give said ref a bell. I actually think he will as he does seem to have a bit of integrity. Having looked at the pelanty incident again I can understand why it isn't given as Stu has a handful of the boy's shirt so it looks 50-50. We were fucking woeful on Sunday and it's unforgivable. Our thing has long been that we play as a team greater than the sum of its parts. The other night we seemed to even pack passion and character. We have good players too but it honestly looked like there was no plan beyond these individuals trying to make something from nothing. I don't feel that immigration is a magic bullet either. What we need is facilities and development of a culture of sport participation instead of the parade of fat kids I see increasing year on year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 18 minutes ago, SH Panda said: You're describing the same thing, I wasn't suggesting they mass export 13 year olds to other countries - that wouldn't make any sense. You said they totally outsource their youth development to larger nations. Whatever you meant to say, this is categorically a load of pish. Uruguay have a much higher % of their kids playing well-coached grassroots football. They have 70k playing "baby football" at primary school level alone. They have national competitions that are played at the national stadium on TV. What Uruguay do isn't magic, or luck. We could learn a huge amount from them. I agree entirely that their system is designed to produce top players who will very quickly outgrow the Uruguayan league. That's exactly what I said in my first post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: I'm not going to go through their squad, but Argentina as a country is full of Italian (and Spanish) passport holders, packed with second-generation immigrants who could play for their grandparents' country. Is most of their players having an Italian or Spanish origin a sign of great diversity? You’d imagine most of the Scottish squad have English or Irish family. Argentina doesn’t really have a high % of people living in it who were born outwith the country. Does this signify a shift to them being shite in the next generation?! Edited June 25 by Bonksy+HisChristianParade 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said: Is most of their players having an Italian or Spanish origin a sign of great diversity? Erm... yes? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Deans Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 hours ago, DA Baracus said: I can't believe how easy Clarke has had it in the press. Reporters should have absolutely went right through him. He should have been asked the difficult questions and called out if he tried to bullshit, be terse or otherwise deflect/avoid. He should have been held accountable to his negative, cowardly bullshit and everything else that went wrong. There should be far more articles that fucking blast him and go through everything in punishing detail. Aye.Should have been binned after Euro 2021. Another fkng shambles at a major tournament. 4 years to learn f**k all ya useless negative git Clarke. Get stuffed Stevie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jives Miguel Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 What need is to import a bunch of slavic Balkan people. Ridiculous the extent to which those people excel at pretty much every sport they put their mind to. Croatia is a tiny country and is world class at football, handball, water polo and god knows what else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 It's OK, now that the Premiership has banned artificial pitches, reducing access to hundreds of kids, we'll surely do much better next time! Championship teams will be reluctant to get one knowing they'll need to pay loads to replace it should they go up and those who do have one will obviously need to replace should they go up. Just one factor but reducing access and potentially/probably losing folk to the game is indicative of the approach and mindset in Scotland. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Algebraist Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) Scotland's youth football is improving a lot and I think some results are already being seen. There is one lad who plays with my daughter (who is four - so the 2019 age group) and if I could put money on him playing for Scotland now I definitely would. We have 40 four and five year olds playing in just one small town and literally hundreds across the age groups. Rangers took two of our seven year olds a year back and there are scouts hanging around all the time. The idea that top down initiatives will do much to help or hinder the national team in the long term is a bit of a red herring imo. Some of our kids play indoors, some on 4G and grass at the weekends but it doesn't really matter. Like honestly who cares what the premier league are playing on? We have a loose affiliation with a Premier League club but they aren't all that involved. Elite academies etc are part of the puzzle sure, but if you empower communities to grow youth football by providing facilities and funding thousands more kids will take part, hundreds of more people will take coaching badges, and that is what will make the biggest difference. Edited June 25 by The Algebraist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 3 minutes ago, SH Panda said: Yeah, I was referring to their current team. Because it's more relevant. Bench warmers who have played twice? Their squad is more diverse, that was my whole point... Denmark as a country is more diverse, something we should aspire to. For Belgium and Switzerland the diversity is even greater. More diversity is pretty clearly correlated with improved outcomes. I didn't think people would assume I meant they exported out their 7 year olds to other countries. Rather, clearly, they want their best players out to Europe as soon as feasibly possible. Id recommend Scotland do the same, get players ready for top 5 European leagues asap. I agree we can learn a lot from Uruguay, most nations could. Id be very supportive if we do more of what they do. We should also not abandon entirely what we do, given our 150 years as a successful footballing nation with a wonderful WC qualifying record. Our domestic game is far ahead of Denmark or Uruguay, they would love to have what we have in that record. Every nation our size would love a domestic game as consistently strong as ours over the past few decades. Decent chance it negatively affects our international side, at least to a certain extent. Just one of those things. At the end of the day Mr panda none of this has any bearing on whether steve set his team up correctly in any of the 3 games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 29 minutes ago, SH Panda said: Yeah, I was referring to their current team. Because it's more relevant. Bench warmers who have played twice? Their squad is more diverse, that was my whole point... Denmark as a country is more diverse, something we should aspire to. For Belgium and Switzerland the diversity is even greater. More diversity is pretty clearly correlated with improved outcomes. I Nah you moved the goalposts from what I originally stated as the most successful period in Spain’s history to try and suit your silly wee argument. Denmark is hardly a very diverse country. They have a few bit part players who barely play a role in the team’s success. Scotland had multiple English born players in the starting 11. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 34 minutes ago, SH Panda said: I didn't think people would assume I meant they exported out their 7 year olds to other countries. Rather, clearly, they want their best players out to Europe as soon as feasibly possible. Id recommend Scotland do the same, get players ready for top 5 European leagues asap. I agree we can learn a lot from Uruguay, most nations could. Id be very supportive if we do more of what they do. We should also not abandon entirely what we do, given our 150 years as a successful footballing nation with a wonderful WC qualifying record. Our domestic game is far ahead of Denmark or Uruguay, they would love to have what we have in that record. Every nation our size would love a domestic game as consistently strong as ours over the past few decades. Decent chance it negatively affects our international side, at least to a certain extent. Just one of those things. I didn't think you were talking about 7 year olds either. "Youth development" would typically be talking about players under 18 and before they're playing first team football. The vast majority of top Urugauyan players leave Uruguay after or around 18, having already played first team football. They have already been developed. Agreed though that young Scottish players should be looking to go out and play in different leagues as soon as they get the chance. It's encouraging to see more of them doing it know, rather than waiting around for a move to the old firm or Norwich. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Bridge Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Supras shifting the goalposts all over the place, eh? Who'd have thought it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi2 Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) For all the 'Youth Development' chat, we currently have a good core of young players whether already in the senior squad (Hickey, Gilmour Ferguson) or coming through from the Under 21s..David Watson, Lennon Miller, Tommy Conway, Ben Doak. Whoever the manager is, should be looking to these guys for the WC campaign..there is enough there, if properly used, to build a team capable of getting to the USA. It's the more 'experienced' ones the Hanleys, McGregor, McGinn, Adams etc, who don't look as 'up to it', longer term. Is Clarke likely to turn to a midfield of Watson, Gilmour, Miller with Doak eg up front though? Edited June 25 by Jedi2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, SH Panda said: Denmark as a country is more diverse, something we should aspire to … More diversity is pretty clearly correlated with improved outcomes. I find this argument troubling. Suggesting, as you did earlier in the thread, that we 'target' immigrants from 'southern Europe, north Africa, West Africa (and those of West African descent)' to improve our 'player pool' in in '10-20 years' is a ludicrously fantastic social engineering project – for what? For the bonus of getting out of the group stage of major football competitions? Fucking hell. I mean even if it wasn't the sort of notion that some Eugenics-crazed crackpot would be comfortable with, it's literally impossible to implement: Scotland doesn't control its own immigration policy. So why do you keep banging on about it? I'd prefer us to be a country that welcomes refugees and immigrants irrespective of where they came from or their genetic propensity to become footballers, and when it comes to 'improving outcomes', we start with the low-hanging fruit, like, you know, examining our own coaching and sporting culture. 2 hours ago, SH Panda said: Clearly, they want their best players out to Europe as soon as feasibly possible. Id recommend Scotland do the same, get players ready for top 5 European leagues asap. I hadn't realised it was as simple as 'getting our players ready for the top leagues' and buying them a one-way ticket. You should put your recommendation to Scotland. He probably hadn't thought of it. 2 hours ago, SH Panda said: We should also not abandon entirely what we do, given our 150 years as a successful footballing nation with a wonderful WC qualifying record. We literally have folk in this country nearer 30 than 20, with kids of their own, who have not been alive to see us at a World Cup. Why is what we achieved more than a generation ago relevant when you dismiss more recent successes by other small nations as blips? 2 hours ago, SH Panda said: Our domestic game is far ahead of Denmark No idea by what measure you're claiming this, or its relevance. But quality? Our European club co-efficient has trailed Denmark for the vast majority of the last 15 years. Finance? Last time I checked the Danish League got 50% more than us in its TV deals. Average attendances? Maybe, but so what? We know we're football-daft in this country, but Scots going to football matches isn't the problem that needs solving here. 2 hours ago, SH Panda said: Every nation our size would love a domestic game as consistently strong as ours over the past few decades Bizarre that of all your madcap ideas for improving the quality of our national team, you present our domestic game – where the last 30 league titles have been shared by two teams who hardly feature Scottish players – as the thing that doesn't need looked at. Edited June 25 by Mr Heliums 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 People should remember that before Steve Clarke was appointed we were losing to the likes of Wales, Ireland and drawing with the likes of Lithuania, etc and we couldn't string 3 passes together. The grass isn't always greener, particularly looking at the list of candidates. -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Terrapin Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Get him to f**k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Mind all the chat after Euro 2020 about the lessons that would be learned? Nothing was learned. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Chripper said: People should remember that before Steve Clarke was appointed we were losing to the likes of Wales, Ireland and drawing with the likes of Lithuania, etc and we couldn't string 3 passes together. The grass isn't always greener, particularly looking at the list of candidates. Clarke has never lost to Ireland (or Northern Ireland) right enough. With a midfield better than England’s that’s the minimum we should expect. Edited June 25 by Bonksy+HisChristianParade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 3 minutes ago, Joe Terrapin said: Get him to f**k. Clarke or @SH Panda ? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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