US Presidential Election 2024

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, TxRover said:

No, you’re ignoring the fact TOFF will put his yes men in place, slimy b*****ds that will do just what Project 2025 suggests because they gain power. 

Self-evidently not a fact, but rather conjecture.

It's no wonder minders were sent to tell you how to do your job, before they gratefully closed the book on letting you act in any official capacity. An absolutely broken mess.

[10menwent2mow]

If you read 'Fear' by Bob Woodward, it kinda explains how the checks and balances worked by stopping Trump do things on a whim in the first 18 months of his term. 

If, he gets elected and if, he gets away with appointing only yes men, then those checks and balances are in the bin. From what I've read, a huge part of project 2025 relies on having control of both houses in Congress and having 100% support from the Republicans in both houses. 

I seriously fear for the US and the rest of us under a 2nd Trump admin, and I think it's almost a certainty to happen. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

14 hours ago, The Other Foot said:

My contribution is a sunburst of realism. The psychopathic orange nepo-baby is, in reality, going to pay zero attention to the strategy document of a thinktank, or to the people within his party who would like him to. He is in this for himself. He will change with the wind. If the wholesale alteration of the civil service hiring process turns out to be too difficult (as it will, given the checks and balances inherent to American politics) then, in reality, he will drop the policy like a lead balloon and move on to the next thing that makes the sealpups clap. 
 

To over dramatise the potential effect of a Trump presidency is to give far too much respect to this microcosmic, slapstick moment in history.

 

TLDR: you’re being hysterical, darling. 

As the guy memorably shouted at the Mike & Bernie Winters gig at the Glasgow Empire, 'Aw f**k, there's two o' them !'

[TxRover]

12 hours ago, 10menwent2mow said:

If you read 'Fear' by Bob Woodward, it kinda explains how the checks and balances worked by stopping Trump do things on a whim in the first 18 months of his term. 

If, he gets elected and if, he gets away with appointing only yes men, then those checks and balances are in the bin. From what I've read, a huge part of project 2025 relies on having control of both houses in Congress and having 100% support from the Republicans in both houses. 

I seriously fear for the US and the rest of us under a 2nd Trump admin, and I think it's almost a certainty to happen. 

Implementation of Project 2025 on more than a short term, Executive Order, basis would take both Houses plus the Presidency. One of the terrifying things about Project 2025 is the breadth of what it proposes without said majorities. Rather than a fever dream, this plan is a carefully designed blueprint to extracting maximum chance from minimum control…it’s much like breaking off a slab of stone using feathers and wedges, it seems hopeless, but relies upon physics and knowledge.

Trumps first term caused a massive appointment of Federal judges who would be amenable to this crap (3 Supreme Court, 54 Appellate, 174 District), judges whose ranks are packed with partisan hacks who were not rated as suitable, knowledgeable or competent by a number of legal groups the Republican Party used to revere. These numbers dwarf any other single term President except Carter, but Carter appointed ZERO to the Supreme Court. 28% of active Federal judges were appointed by Trump, and 52% by Republican presidents.

Checks and balances are well and good when people respect the norms, but when the system has been undermined, and others are willing to ignore the guardrails in support, the condition of the U.S. is a good deal more fragile than one might think. Appoint a couple of Generals who don’t have the same respect for the Constitution as the last set, ignore judicial rulings (how many armies does the Pope have, anyone?), purge the civil service (Schedule F AND the favorite action of the Twitter Caucus, zeroing the salary of people they object to, for instance), and so forth…pretty soon there are few adults left to stop the “advisors” (or puppet masters) from a literal coup.

[BFTD]

On 29/06/2024 at 11:36, Granny Danger said:

Project 2025 is about building the infrastructure to do what the hell you want.  Once you have total control of the machinery of government and that government is filled with unquestioning zealots in all the key positions then all else follows.

It is largely inspired by what Trump failed to do first time around because no one really thought he would win.  That is why he ended up appointing a succession of ‘loyalists’ who at the end of the day thought their loyalty to the Constitution was more important than their loyalty to the President.

Nothing is being left to chance this time around.

I think we're in agreement about what's happening, just the speed at which it's likely to happen might differ.

I think it was @Zetterlund who thinks this is guff to keep his supporters onside until he can get back to emptying the public coffers into his/his backers' pockets again? The problem is that this Project 2025 stuff helps that to happen without impediment. The anger against Clinton was just a personal vandetta that became useful propaganda, by which time he'd stopped caring about it.

The really worrying thing is that millions of Americans would now be perfectly happy to live in a fascist dictatorship on the ridiculous assumption that they're always going to be the ones wearing the boot. Considering that their needs and opinions are frequently at odds with other Trump supporters, they need to wake up sharpish for their own benefit.

[DrewDon]

[Cheese]

That guy has the morals of an alley cat was the ultimate put down in 1949. No coming back from it. Toasted.

[Freedom Farter]

Another negative result of this dishonesty about Biden's senility is that older age itself is now being blamed. Anything to deflect from the fact its Biden the individual that's the problem. I don't want a consensus to develop that older age must become a disqualifier. Pepe Mujica did a great job as Uruguay president when roughly Biden's age, to give a recent example.

Edit: Uruguay is a diddy country so maybe Brazil and their currently 78 year old president Lula is a better comparison to USA. 

Edited Sunday at 16:14 by Freedom Farter

[Granny Danger]

I’m now convinced there is no way Biden can beat Trump, even if Trump is thrown in jail over the hush money conviction (and that’s highly unlikely).

Biden is not just suffering from his performance during the recent debate, he is suffering from the aftermath where many pro-Democrat pundits and commentators are calling for him to step down.

His credibility is shot, the only hope is that he takes the right decision and does so within the next few days.

If Biden’s stubbornness hands Trump a victory he will be rightly vilified for years to come.

Edited Sunday at 16:43 by Granny Danger

[TxRover]

55 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I’m now convinced there is no way Biden can beat Trump, even if Trump is thrown in jail over the hush money conviction (and that’s highly unlikely).

Biden is not just suffering from his performance during the recent debate, he is suffering from the aftermath where many pro-Democrat pundits and commentators are calling for him to step down.

His credibility is shot, the only hope is that he takes the right decision and does so within the next few days.

If Biden’s stubbornness hands Trump a victory he will be rightly vilified for years to come.

You’re falling into an echo chamber fallacy. All the headlines are by and for involved political types, the average voter really doesn’t pay much, if any, f**king attention. The Fox viewers, will vote Trump and will see all the stuff about Biden’s issues…the MSNBC and CNN voters will vote Biden and will see all he stuff about Trumps crimes and similar missteps…the independent voters will see a little bit of both, shrug, say “they’re at it again”, and will vote for or against Trump (and probably his abortion policies), no more.

Also, note that there are a number of issues with “replacing” Biden. Biden’s delegates are pledged to vote for him, and not to change their vote to whomever he wants. In other words, they don’t have a mechanism to simply name someone to stand for Biden, it’d be a brutal, winner take all Convention battle, as each delegate would be allowed to vote their conscience if released. Conservative groups would be filing lawsuits all over challenging any change, it would be absolute chaos. Also, the Democratic Party has planned a “virtual nomination” before what was the Ohio ballot deadline and the actual Convention, which makes things even sticker.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

You’re falling into an echo chamber fallacy. All the headlines are by and for involved political types, the average voter really doesn’t pay much, if any, f**king attention. The Fox viewers, will vote Trump and will see all the stuff about Biden’s issues…the MSNBC and CNN voters will vote Biden and will see all he stuff about Trumps crimes and similar missteps…the independent voters will see a little bit of both, shrug, say “they’re at it again”, and will vote for or against Trump (and probably his abortion policies), no more.

Also, note that there are a number of issues with “replacing” Biden. Biden’s delegates are pledged to vote for him, and not to change their vote to whomever he wants. In other words, they don’t have a mechanism to simply name someone to stand for Biden, it’d be a brutal, winner take all Convention battle, as each delegate would be allowed to vote their conscience if released. Conservative groups would be filing lawsuits all over challenging any change, it would be absolute chaos. Also, the Democratic Party has planned a “virtual nomination” before what was the Ohio ballot deadline and the actual Convention, which makes things even sticker.

Polls suggest orherwise.

[TxRover]

23 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Polls suggest orherwise.

Polls agree that neither candidate is a good candidate. Experience shows people hold their noses and vote either party line or their self interests. This election will hinge on self interest determination, not either candidate. My $0.02.

[Granny Danger]

Biden’s family reportedly tell him to stay in presidential race as blame shifts to advisers

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/01/joe-biden-presidential-race-camp-david-family-meeting-advisers  Yeah, that’s the sort of advisor you want to listen to…

The Associated Press reported that the strongest voices imploring Biden to resist pressure to drop out were his wife, Jill, and his son Hunter

Yeah, that’s definitely the sort of advisor you want to listen to…

[BFTD]

3 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

 

Biden’s family reportedly tell him to stay in presidential race as blame shifts to advisers

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/01/joe-biden-presidential-race-camp-david-family-meeting-advisers  Yeah, that’s the sort of advisor you want to listen to…

The Associated Press reported that the strongest voices imploring Biden to resist pressure to drop out were his wife, Jill, and his son Hunter

Yeah, that’s definitely the sort of advisor you want to listen to…

Obviously his son wouldn't want "the big guy" to leave him totally irrelevant, but does his missus just not want him under her feet in the house or something?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

16 hours ago, TxRover said:

You’re falling into an echo chamber fallacy. All the headlines are by and for involved political types, the average voter really doesn’t pay much, if any, f**king attention. The Fox viewers, will vote Trump and will see all the stuff about Biden’s issues…the MSNBC and CNN voters will vote Biden and will see all he stuff about Trumps crimes and similar missteps…the independent voters will see a little bit of both, shrug, say “they’re at it again”, and will vote for or against Trump (and probably his abortion policies), no more.

Also, note that there are a number of issues with “replacing” Biden. Biden’s delegates are pledged to vote for him, and not to change their vote to whomever he wants. In other words, they don’t have a mechanism to simply name someone to stand for Biden, it’d be a brutal, winner take all Convention battle, as each delegate would be allowed to vote their conscience if released. Conservative groups would be filing lawsuits all over challenging any change, it would be absolute chaos. Also, the Democratic Party has planned a “virtual nomination” before what was the Ohio ballot deadline and the actual Convention, which makes things even sticker.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

16 hours ago, TxRover said:

You’re falling into an echo chamber fallacy. All the headlines are by and for involved political types, the average voter really doesn’t pay much, if any, f**king attention. The Fox viewers, will vote Trump and will see all the stuff about Biden’s issues…the MSNBC and CNN voters will vote Biden and will see all he stuff about Trumps crimes and similar missteps…the independent voters will see a little bit of both, shrug, say “they’re at it again”, and will vote for or against Trump (and probably his abortion policies), no more.

Also, note that there are a number of issues with “replacing” Biden. Biden’s delegates are pledged to vote for him, and not to change their vote to whomever he wants. In other words, they don’t have a mechanism to simply name someone to stand for Biden, it’d be a brutal, winner take all Convention battle, as each delegate would be allowed to vote their conscience if released. Conservative groups would be filing lawsuits all over challenging any change, it would be absolute chaos. Also, the Democratic Party has planned a “virtual nomination” before what was the Ohio ballot deadline and the actual Convention, which makes things even sticker.

 

[BFTD]

I do kind of agree that the Democrats would still be fucked if they managed to force Biden to resign. They've no clear candidate to rally behind and, being politicians, they'd all have the knives out for each other over the next few months. To the average swing voter, it would (quite fairly) look like chaos. Even for the folk who've realised that Trump v2.0 would be A Bad Thing, it's hardly a great motivator to bother voting, considering how few Americans usually do anyway.

They've had four years to prepare for this and, as usual, they've sat with their thumbs up their arses assuming everything was going to work out in the end. I can only assume it's because the people making the decisions know that defeat doesn't actually affect them or their lives in any meaningful way. Imagine the difference in approach if people like Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Joe Biden had genuinely believed they were going to be persecuted/sanctioned/jailed/executed if the Republicans had control of government.

[Salvo Montalbano]

I dare say there are some Democrats out there who are thinking it'll be fine if Trump wins. Hope to do well in the mid-terms, get a Newsom or a Whitmer or a Shapiro to run against whatever loon the MAGA crowd pick in 2028 and take it from there. 

Of course, this assumes that a lot of Project 2025 doesn't happen, that they do actually do well in the 2026 mid terms, that they can get behind a candidate for the general, that Trump doesn't somehow manage to do a not awful job, etc. Big gamble.

[coprolite]

Can’t they just work him with animatronics like we did with the Queen? 
I know American’s can do this because of Michael Buffer.

[Granny Danger]

55 minutes ago, BFTD said:

I do kind of agree that the Democrats would still be fucked if they managed to force Biden to resign. They've no clear candidate to rally behind and, being politicians, they'd all have the knives out for each other over the next few months. To the average swing voter, it would (quite fairly) look like chaos. Even for the folk who've realised that Trump v2.0 would be A Bad Thing, it's hardly a great motivator to bother voting, considering how few Americans usually do anyway.

They've had four years to prepare for this and, as usual, they've sat with their thumbs up their arses assuming everything was going to work out in the end. I can only assume it's because the people making the decisions know that defeat doesn't actually affect them or their lives in any meaningful way. Imagine the difference in approach if people like Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Joe Biden had genuinely believed they were going to be persecuted/sanctioned/jailed/executed if the Republicans had control of government.

I reckon every Democrat and a large number of Independents realise how disastrous and dangerous a second Trump Presidency would be and would welcome a credible candidate that they could get behind.

As you. Say the biggest danger is the Dems’ own ambitions if Biden were to step aside.