Air Pollution

[vikingTON]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/20/revealed-almost-everyone-in-europe-breathing-toxic-air

Air pollution is a major cause of still births, chronic ill health and premature death in societies across the world. It has also become a pathetic wedge issue in the UK over schemes like the Ultra Low Emissions Zone in London, which got Terry (57) and the rest of the 'but ma car/white van!' special pleading brigade to vote Tory for more premature deaths, stillbirths and chronic ill-health. 

A new analysis using 2019 data shows the extent of the problem in Europe across each locality: 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2023/sep/20/europes-pollution-divide-see-how-your-area-compares

While the Clyde Riviera basks in low-pollution, fresh air all year round, I think we can do more to help those less fortunate than ourselves. The straightforward act of phasing out private car ownership would be more beneficial to public health and wellbeing than any amount of nonsense, behavioural interventions beloved by the (car driving) public health lobby right now. 

Discuss.

[MONKMAN]

I own a car.  As a result, I'm able to drive to exactly where I want to go at the exact time I want to be there.  Cars are great.  

[scottsdad]

If you want to avoid air pollution, simply drive to somewhere with lower pollution levels. 

[alta-pete]

I drive a car too polluting for the Glasgow LEZ. I therefore do not drive it within those boundaries where the air quality is, irrespective of the LEZ status, already deemed satisfactory:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23549119.glasgow-air-quality-meets-targets-lez-scrapped/

I drive it across predominantly rural areas where it makes fuckall difference to the levels of air pollution. 

Who should be the ultimate arbiter of whether I get to use my car?

Spoiler

That was rhetorical. I’ll decide, thanks. 

 

[Richey Edwards]

I like to leave my car running while it is stationary.

[101]

A ridiculous wedge issue and it is true too much space in towns and cities are given over to cars.

Cars are also probably the only thing people expect to have a right to dump on public land, like you wouldn't buy a fridge too big for your house and leave it out on the street.

Private car ownership is here to stay particularly in Scotland where it's not practical to have fast mass transit systems round the country. 

In London however, why does anyone need to drive their weans to school in a massive diesel agricultural vehicle? Complete madness.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Yer Salamander Streets, yer Hope Streets, yer Lochee Roads, yer Seagates, yer, erm Bonnygate Cupar.

 

 

[Jives Miguel]

The car drivers wet dream of a cityscape.

 

[jamamafegan]

Phasing out private car ownership is an absolute no go unless you live in a city with good public transport infrastructure, in which case you can probably get by on some sort of car share scheme.

I think ULEZs should be rolled out across the rest of Scotland's cities, for me it's a no brainer. Most modern vehicles are compliant now and nobody wants your shitty old banger rolling around town. P&K Council don't seem keen to do it even though the shape of our city centre is ideal for a ULEZ.

Another thing I'd like more in our cities and towns is more trees. Not only will they freshen the air but they make urban areas look far more attractive and are good for biodiversity as well. I remember being delighted with the number of trees lining the streets of Vancouver when I visited years ago. Every town and city should aspire to that.

[RuMoore]

I don't have a dog in this fight but after visiting York earlier in the year where the city centre is 99% car free it was a thoroughly enjoyable experience and more cities should do similar. 

[vikingTON]

33 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

I drive a car too polluting for the Glasgow LEZ. I therefore do not drive it within those boundaries where the air quality is, irrespective of the LEZ status, already deemed satisfactory:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23549119.glasgow-air-quality-meets-targets-lez-scrapped/

  Hide contents

That was rhetorical. I’ll decide, thanks. 

 

Well no the levels of pollution are not 'satisfactory' - the target for action is 4x higher than the WHO recommended, safe limit.

And that's just for nitrogen dioxide, PM 2.5 is a different measurement. 

Quote

I drive it across predominantly rural areas where it makes fuckall difference to the levels of air pollution. 

Agriculture is a major cause of air pollution too, so combining it with pointless car use is in fact a contributory cause of air pollution. 

[pozbaird]

6 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

The car drivers wet dream of a cityscape.

 

Great train service from Manhattan to Metlife Stadium. Station is right beside it. Big queues of fans waiting to board them back into town, but was very well organised. Great views as the train winds around the Jersey swamps.

Only downside was Brady & the Patriots gubbing the Jets the time I was there though. However, great train service allowing me to leave the car. In Car Park 2 at Glasgow Airport.

[vikingTON]

45 minutes ago, 101 said:

Private car ownership is here to stay particularly in Scotland where it's not practical to have fast mass transit systems round the country. 

In London however, why does anyone need to drive their weans to school in a massive diesel agricultural vehicle? Complete madness.

Nah, that's the classic passing the buck mentality that we do too often in Scotland. Too hard for us to do, but of course London should do something about their problem.

The reality is that the overwhelming majority of the Scottish population live in condensed settlement areas (the Central Belt being the largest), not in Caithness or North Uist. In the areas where Scots actually live there is ample density to provide mass transit at scale and phase out private car use.

We aren't even close to existing best practice yet though. Whereas the Netherlands already provides public transit on a 24 hour basis in its main areas of settlement, Scotland is still wedded to a 6-23 (if you're lucky), six day service, with a banger equivalent on the Sabbath. 

[alta-pete]

12 minutes ago, virginton said:

Well no the levels of pollution are not 'satisfactory' - the target for action is 4x higher than the WHO recommended, safe limit.

And that's just for nitrogen dioxide, PM 2.5 is a different measurement. 

Agriculture is a major cause of air pollution too, so combining it with pointless car use is in fact a contributory cause of air pollution. 

Is me earning a wage and paying taxes ‘pointless car use’? 

[Wee-Bey]

Please bro, one more lane will fix it honest bro.

[vikingTON]

10 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

Is me earning a wage and paying taxes ‘pointless car use’? 

Given you've already conceded that your car use is not in fact essential and compulsory - see 'I no longer drive in Glasgow's ULEZ because mah car is too polluting' - then I wouldn't expect a Victoria Cross for your heroic sacrifice. 

Taxes do not factor in the enormous negative externalities caused by private car use: the price of carbon pollution; the price of air pollution on public health. That's before we even consider the cost of deaths/injuries from incompetent driving and the cost on public health from noise pollution.

If the automobile were invented tomorrow then no sane government or society would establish a free for all in consumption. You are sadly trapped in a 20th century mindset. 

[pozbaird]

As I’m a lazy basturt’ and cannot be arsed Googling for an answer, does anyone on the font of all knowledge that is P&B know the answer to this - has anyone (not a P&B poster, a transport agency of some sort) done a comparison of the overall impact on the environment of petrol cars v electric cars?

I ask this because I bought a new VW Polo earlier this year which is a 1ltr 95bhp petrol engine job, gets over 500 miles to the tank, and is pretty low on the nasty emissions scale. The advances in leaner burning, cleaner petrol engined cars are actually tremendous these days. I also ask because my neighbour is a recently retired car salesperson, and tells me about the impact on the environment of producing batteries for electric cars. He also says there is a timebomb waiting to explode of piles and piles of four year old (or older) electric cars with hugely degraded battery life becoming unsellable, and with a trade-in value of thruppence ha’penny and a half-chewed penny caramel. Buy an electric car today, and in four years time, no kunt will want it, as in those four years, advances in battery technology will mean people shunning second-hand electric cars and instead buying a new electric car with the more modern battery and no doubt, much increased range. My four year old Polo, having been well looked after, will still get 500 miles to a tank, will be worth a decent amount at trade in, and someone will snap it up off the forecourt in jig time.

I currently sit on the side of petrol in overall terms against electric. I only do 7,000 miles a year in a small engined efficient car. I cannot justify buying an electric car that firstly costs £10,000 more than my petrol one, and will likely be worth fcuk-all by the time Hibs and Aberdeen have been through another four managers each.

Just going by what my car salesman neighbour Davie says. I haven’t a scooby. About anything.

Edited September 21, 2023 by pozbaird

[Alert Mongoose]

Until enough of us can force ourselves ('NOT IN MY CAR YARD!') to use public transport, then public transport will effectively remain too expensive. 

I don't see us reaching the point where publicly funded transport solutions run economically on paper in the near future, sadly.  It has to happen over time though.

The bit that needs to happen in the future is for people (via taxation presumably) move the money they spend on buying/running cars into investing in the infrastructure required.  Personally, I think that electric cars are a white elephant that ought not to be persued but just an opinion.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Alert Mongoose

[Jives Miguel]

42 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Great train service from Manhattan to Metlife Stadium. Station is right beside it. Big queues of fans waiting to board them back into town, but was very well organised. Great views as the train winds around the Jersey swamps.

Only downside was Brady & the Patriots gubbing the Jets the time I was there though. However, great train service allowing me to leave the car. In Car Park 2 at Glasgow Airport.

 

I didn't even know that was New York. Cities like that will have decent transport links. Many will not since city building in the US is predicated on the car. An ugly shithole of a country.

[Wee-Bey]