Kevin Keegan doesn't like women presenters commenting on men's football

[blackislekillie]

4 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

Because in the public eye, talent = insight. It’s the knowledge economy.  For every Alan Shearer or Gary Lineker, there are 20 Lee Dixons.  

That's me not getting any sleep tonight. Cheers. 

[2426255]

I watch games on mute whether the commentary is male or female. There's no insight, it's extremely difficult to properly analyse a football match in real time for 5 minutes let alone 90 as there's so much going on so it mostly ends up in mindless babble.

On female pundits I like Leanne Crichton, she is one of the few women whose real time analysis on football I respect and would give time to. No other women spring to mind, but as I've mentioned above I don't have lots of exposure and so it mostly comes from the radio.

Edited October 10, 2023 by 2426255

[Ludo*1]

I don't mind presenters being shite if they're enthusiastic or have a bit of fun such as Michah Richards or Derek Ferguson on Sportsound. There's space for clueless daftness. What boils my piss is people like Pat Bonner who don't bother their arse to research anything and don't have patter to save themselves, people like Martin Keown, Mark Lawrenson or Danny Murphy who act like they are the fucking business and we are lucky to be hearing them sound bored as f**k by the game they're watching or finally, people like Eniola Aluko who come out with absolutely batshit mental statements then claim it's because they are female or it's due to the colour of their skin that they're being criticised.

We've some fantastic pundits male and female going around but we seem to get the same utter fucking dross. Ally McCoist is an arsepiece of a guy but a fantastic commentator. Took about a decade for him to get on one of the main teams whilst we had to endure the likes of Jermaine Jenas or Andy Walker. Not a fan of Football Focus but Alex Scott is another who's very decent when on punditry duties and Laura Woods is an excellent host. We seem to get some utterly soulless former England Lionness on BBC programming at the moment though (can't recall her name).

Even on a local basis, I don't rate Jonathan Sutherland at all but he's competent enough yet he's been demoted for the chronic, doesn't even like football, Steven Thompson just because he was an ex player. Another example is Sportsound, there's bound to be a better fucking replacement for Richard Gordon than Kenny Macintyre ffs.

To sum up my rant, it's not a male or female problem. It's a fucking selection of talent problem.

 

[diegomarahenry]

The only female pundit I am regularly exposed to is Leeanne Crichton who is very good. I don't torture myself with 5 live or any other radio station. 

During English games, I tend to switch just before kick-off and do stuff at half time or between games on a Sunday as all the incidents, especially since VAR are replayed to death during the game. The only exception would be if I wanted to hear a managers interview post match. I don't watch match of the day because it isn't 1983. 
I can honestly say I don't care who the pundits are. 

I see clips posted on social media of the sky pundits if anything controversial is said. I think pundits should be relevant to the modern game, Roy Keane is good value for money but his ideas are dated. Hansen had the right idea retiring himself.  Souness was knowledgeable but probably hung about too long. 

Sky are right to clear out the old guard every now and then, the game moves on and so should they. 

[throbber]

The only pundit I have ever found insufferable is Mark Lawrenson. Also that time Tim Vine was bought on as a half time guest pundit during the Sutton Utd Arsenal FA cup tie in 2016 wasn’t even remotely funny either.

[StewartyMac]

The only thing I don't like about female commentators is that it usually sounds like it's a wee laddie behind the mic. The one that does some of the games for the BBC is a prime example of this. 

[highlandmac]

11 hours ago, StewartyMac said:

The only thing I don't like about female commentators is that it usually sounds like it's a wee laddie behind the mic. The one that does some of the games for the BBC is a prime example of this. 

I think one of the problems is commentators either want, or are encouraged, to be excitable which isn't great with anyone,really,but especially a high pitched voice.a knowledgeable woman speaking,not shrieking,doesn't bother me one bit

[oneteaminglasgow]

On 09/10/2023 at 13:21, tamthebam said:

It's amusing when during World Cups they have a token foreigner (e.g. Kilnnsmann) and they give the English ex-players a right showing up by being intelligent and erudite in their non-native language. 

 

At the other end of the scale, mind the World Cup (I think it was 2010 or 2014) where one of them had Fabio Cannavaro as a pundit and it became clear almost immediately that he couldn’t speak particularly fluent English. 

[Distant Doonhamer]

On 10/10/2023 at 21:32, Ludo*1 said:

I don't mind presenters being shite if they're enthusiastic or have a bit of fun such as Michah Richards or Derek Ferguson on Sportsound. There's space for clueless daftness. What boils my piss is people like Pat Bonner who don't bother their arse to research anything and don't have patter to save themselves, people like Martin Keown, Mark Lawrenson or Danny Murphy who act like they are the fucking business and we are lucky to be hearing them sound bored as f**k by the game they're watching or finally, people like Eniola Aluko who come out with absolutely batshit mental statements then claim it's because they are female or it's due to the colour of their skin that they're being criticised.

We've some fantastic pundits male and female going around but we seem to get the same utter fucking dross. Ally McCoist is an arsepiece of a guy but a fantastic commentator. Took about a decade for him to get on one of the main teams whilst we had to endure the likes of Jermaine Jenas or Andy Walker. Not a fan of Football Focus but Alex Scott is another who's very decent when on punditry duties and Laura Woods is an excellent host. We seem to get some utterly soulless former England Lionness on BBC programming at the moment though (can't recall her name).

Even on a local basis, I don't rate Jonathan Sutherland at all but he's competent enough yet he's been demoted for the chronic, doesn't even like football, Steven Thompson just because he was an ex player. Another example is Sportsound, there's bound to be a better fucking replacement for Richard Gordon than Kenny Macintyre ffs.

To sum up my rant, it's not a male or female problem. It's a fucking selection of talent problem.

 

Yes I’d agree with a fair bit of that. There are awful pundits regardless of gender, ethnicity or whatever. Those who are dull and worse haven’t done even a scrap of research largely irritate me. 
Re McCoist I’d agree he’s an excellent pundit albeit when he first had the role he was pretty dire and largely told you what you could see for yourself watching the game. To his credit he’s developed into a cracking pundit. 
Passing observation but watching England reserves v Australia just now. Dion Dublin is a fecking awful pundit. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Distant Doonhamer

[Hoose Rice]

Women commentators are utter shite lets be honest. 

Women pundits on bbc scotland are as bad as having a newsreader on just because they come from Orkney.

BBC scotland isnt the be all and end all though, other women pundits such as Carney are absolutely tremendous and the Chelsea womens boss when shes on World Cup coverage knows more about football than all of the men on the same format.

For balance of the bbc scotland comment re women pundits - for every Jane Lewis theres a pat bonner. 

Commentator stance still stands, they are utter pap.  

[topcat(The most tip top)]

On 09/10/2023 at 14:21, senorsoupe said:

Why is it that pundits (male or female) always have to be former star players (who are often thick as pigshit)?  Over here the best pundits in sports like Ice Hockey are all retired backup goalies and bench warmers who had a lot more time to analyze the game when they were players. 

As former shoe salesman Arrigo Sacchi said "I never realised that in order to become a jockey you have to have been a horse first" for that matter you don't even need to have been a jockey to commentate on horse racing and it's an actual advantage to not be a horse.

 

 

[Savage Henry]

I’ve read at least two posts espousing the qualities of Leanne Crichton.   I think the judging criteria needs clarification, because she’s absolutely lacking in any insight whatsoever.  She just tells us what we’ve just seen. 

[Dee Man]

It’s got to the point where it’s just tokenism and a diversity box-ticking exercise. 

Can’t we just have one thing to ourselves?

There’s a reason there are men/women only nights out and holidays away - we’re completely different creatures. Throw a woman into a male only environment and it completely disrupts the dynamic and vice versa. When was the last time you saw a male pundit ripping the piss out of a female pundit? It doesn’t happen - the banter is completely different. People are scared to say it for fear of being branded sexist or a dinosaur but Keegan said what the vast majority of football fans think. 
 

Come at me…

[RawB93]

2 hours ago, Dee Man said:

Throw a woman into a male only environment and it completely disrupts the dynamic and vice versa.

If a groups dynamic is disrupted by the presence of a woman then perhaps the groups dynamic ain't that great.

Edited October 16, 2023 by RawB93

[invergowrie arab]

2 hours ago, Dee Man said:

It’s got to the point where it’s just tokenism and a diversity box-ticking exercise. 

Can’t we just have one thing to ourselves?

There’s a reason there are men/women only nights out and holidays away - we’re completely different creatures. Throw a woman into a male only environment and it completely disrupts the dynamic and vice versa. When was the last time you saw a male pundit ripping the piss out of a female pundit? It doesn’t happen - the banter is completely different. People are scared to say it for fear of being branded sexist or a dinosaur but Keegan said what the vast majority of football fans think. 
 

Come at me…

People who hold those type of views absolute should be scared of what most  people would think of them

[itzdrk]

2 hours ago, Dee Man said:

It’s got to the point where it’s just tokenism and a diversity box-ticking exercise. 

Can’t we just have one thing to ourselves?

There’s a reason there are men/women only nights out and holidays away - we’re completely different creatures. Throw a woman into a male only environment and it completely disrupts the dynamic and vice versa. When was the last time you saw a male pundit ripping the piss out of a female pundit? It doesn’t happen - the banter is completely different. People are scared to say it for fear of being branded sexist or a dinosaur but Keegan said what the vast majority of football fans think. 
 

Come at me…

The fact no woman would want to go on a night out with you doesn't mean that these things actually exist. 

[velo army]

34 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

If a groups dynamic is disrupted by the presence of a woman then perhaps the groups dynamic ain't that great.

A very misanthropic take.

I've been member, leader and facilitator of men's support groups for years. I've also been on several "men's work" training weekends. I've seen she felt the difference when a woman enters the space. Men's attachment psychology ramps up a notch and most become a bit less relaxed and there's a subtle shift towards competitive behaviour. I notice that I personally become a bit more defensive and move more towards performative behaviour. 

There's a very good reason we keep them men only spaces as men are able to drop more deeply into their processes and the space.

Now obviously these are more energetically concentrated environments than a TV studio, but it supports Dee Man's wider point.

[Dee Man]

3 hours ago, RawB93 said:

If a groups dynamic is disrupted by the presence of a woman then perhaps the groups dynamic ain't that great.

“Disrupted” is probably the wrong word - a shift/change in the dynamic if a male or female enters a female/male only crowd is an undeniable fact. 

3 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

People who hold those type of views absolute should be scared of what most  people would think of them

Go on then, why would that be?

I hope you take your wife on stag do’s. 

3 hours ago, itzdrk said:

The fact no woman would want to go on a night out with you doesn't mean that these things actually exist. 

What does any of this nonsense even mean?

[RH33]

8 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

I’ve read at least two posts espousing the qualities of Leanne Crichton.   I think the judging criteria needs clarification, because she’s absolutely lacking in any insight whatsoever.  She just tells us what we’ve just seen. 

Yup don't rate her or Jane Lewis at all. Lewis is utterly dire though.

Eilidh Barbour is decent.

[2426255]

12 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

I’ve read at least two posts espousing the qualities of Leanne Crichton.   I think the judging criteria needs clarification, because she’s absolutely lacking in any insight whatsoever.  She just tells us what we’ve just seen. 

I did say that my opinion of her came predominantly from listening to her on the radio and that I trust her to provide an accurate picture of a live game I'm listening to.

Edited October 17, 2023 by 2426255