Who’s on the plane?

[itzdrk]

Brown has never done anything for Scotland has he? It's not like he's new to the squad he's been around a couple years and hasn't contributed when given the opportunity.  He shouldn't even be in the debate IMO.  Shite pler

[Pocketman]

1 hour ago, Nesta said:

The level that the play is vastly different, that's thoroughly conclusive evidence.

You are blinded by this and therefore all your opinions appear to be formed with this as your starting point. Instead, why not focus on the players themselves - technical ability, form in a Scotland shirt, and their respective strengths as players. You should be able to do this regardless of the level of opposition. If unable to do so, then maybe consider whether Jacob Brown could score 25 goals for Hearts - based on what I have seen I would seriously doubt that; in fact I doubt he would get double figures even if playing for Rangers or Celtic (if played as a forward). Just a few things to consider rather than "Scottish Premiership is shite" ergo all players playing there are vastly inferior to squad players plying their trade in superior leagues. 

[Nesta]

4 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

You are blinded by this and therefore all your opinions appear to be formed with this as your starting point. Instead, why not focus on the players themselves - technical ability, form in a Scotland shirt, and their respective strengths as players. You should be able to do this regardless of the level of opposition. If unable to do so, then maybe consider whether Jacob Brown could score 25 goals for Hearts - based on what I have seen I would seriously doubt that; in fact I doubt he would get double figures even if playing for Rangers or Celtic (if played as a forward). Just a few things to consider rather than "Scottish Premiership is shite" ergo all players playing there are vastly inferior to squad players plying their trade in superior leagues. 

No, I'm not blinded. What you mean is you don't agree. That's fine, you don't have to. I'm comfortable with my opinion and think Steve Clarke probably agrees.

Shankland has scored 17 goals in the Scottish Premiership this season. Van Basten he is not. 

The level of opposition is incredibly important. Its immeasurably harder playing against Chelsea than Ross County.

I find it strange you seem genuinely angry I would take Brown over Shankland. Are you Lawrence Shankland?  

[Pocketman]

6 minutes ago, Nesta said:

No, I'm not blinded. What you mean is you don't agree. That's fine, you don't have to. I'm comfortable with my opinion and think Steve Clarke probably agrees.

Shankland has scored 17 goals in the Scottish Premiership this season. Van Basten he is not. 

The level of opposition is incredibly important. Its immeasurably harder playing against Chelsea than Ross County.

I find it strange you seem genuinely angry I would take Brown over Shankland. Are you Lawrence Shankland?  

angry . Straight in with the old "ragin", "seethin" response. Says it all but at least Clarke agrees with you. Okay fella 

[2426255]

I'm more interested on focusing on what Steve Clarke's criteria is likely to be. Sometimes the player with the most goals isn't the best fit for the team. I think the team will be prioritised over individuals, that might mean Shankland or it might mean Brown or both or neither.

Griffiths wasn't taken to Euro-2020 despite many suggesting he was "our most natural goal-scorer" at the time. Similarly Ryan Gauld has been overlooked despite posting regular goal and assist numbers. At the end of the day the choice will come down to one man, so it doesn't really matter what any of us personally think.

Managers normally seem to see a different game to fans. There is an emphasis placed on goal-scoring numbers always by fans, time will tell how important it is to our manager.

[Nesta]

Just now, 2426255 said:

I'm more interested on focusing on what Steve Clarke's criteria is likely to be. Sometimes the player with the most goals isn't the best fit for the team. I think the team will be prioritised over individuals, that might mean Shankland or it might mean Brown or both or neither.

Griffiths wasn't taken to Euro-2020 despite many suggesting he was "our most natural goal-scorer" at the time. Similarly Ryan Gauld has been overlooked despite posting regular goal and assist numbers. At the end of the day the choice will come down to one man, so it doesn't really matter what any of us personally think.

Managers normally seem to see a different game to fans. There is an emphasis placed on goal-scoring numbers always by fans, time will tell how important it is to our manager.

Gauld is a good example. If its based on the numbers he is by far our best midfielder. He should be in the starting 11 let alone the squad.

So why isn't he if the level they are playing at doesn't matter?

[No_Problemo]

2 hours ago, Nesta said:

How is it nonsense?  Boyd is obviously a better player. They both rattled them in at Scottish Premiership level but had deficiencies in their game that meant they weren't ideally suited for Scotland. 

Dykes and Adams aren't particularly alike either but they have attributes, as does Brown, that lend themselves quite well to playing up front for us. That's why the manager has seen them as his three first choices for a while now.

I imagine because Shankland has more aspects to his game than Boyd did and is a different type of player. The only similarity is the lack of pace and they both score lots of goals. 

Neither Brown or Shankland are going to start games at the Euros, and neither will be a back up option either. If we need a goal in the last ten minutes it’s barely even a debate which one you would choose to put on out of Shankland and Brown. 

49 minutes ago, Nesta said:

Gauld is a good example. If its based on the numbers he is by far our best midfielder. He should be in the starting 11 let alone the squad.

So why isn't he if the level they are playing at doesn't matter?

You are just purposely being obtuse now - it isn’t even close to being a similar comparison. 

[Richey Edwards]

Anton Dowds

[Gordon EF]

4 hours ago, Nesta said:

The level that the play is vastly different, that's thoroughly conclusive evidence. Shankland will never get anywhere near that level. There is a reason Clarke picks like for like players in this area, that is the type of player Scotland need to play up front.

Shankland's form is impressive but he's really just a poor man's Kris Boyd and Scotland couldn't really accommodate him either so never got the best out of him. 

Shankland is playing with a lot of confidence just now and that is big for a striker but I still would have Brown ahead of him and think Clarke will too.

Of course they play at different levels. That's not "conclusive" evidence of anything.

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, Nesta said:

Gauld is a good example. If its based on the numbers he is by far our best midfielder. He should be in the starting 11 let alone the squad.

So why isn't he if the level they are playing at doesn't matter?

Do you think there's maybe some ground between "level played at" meaning nothing and meaning everything?

The PL is a better league than the Bundesliga. Is Jacob Brown better than Harry Kane?

[eez-eh]

3 hours ago, Nesta said:

No, I'm not blinded. What you mean is you don't agree. That's fine, you don't have to. I'm comfortable with my opinion and think Steve Clarke probably agrees.

Shankland has scored 17 goals in the Scottish Premiership this season. Van Basten he is not. 

The level of opposition is incredibly important. Its immeasurably harder playing against Chelsea than Ross County.

I find it strange you seem genuinely angry I would take Brown over Shankland. Are you Lawrence Shankland?  

Brown managed 7 goals in the championship last season. Him being signed by premier league cannon fodder doesn’t automatically make him a premier league standard player.

[the snudge]

Can't believe Nisbet has more caps than Shankland. Shankland has to be on the plane, he's a brilliant threat to have. 

[eez-eh]

There’s no argument that Brown is more the Clarke type of forward. The argument for Shankland is that as a goal scorer he’s a different option to bring on if we’re chasing a goal, rather than calling up a third similar forward.

I think certain people like to ignore the above so they can sound clever by repeating the same line over and over about Clarke’s type of player.

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

Neither Brown or Shankland are going to start games at the Euros, and neither will be a back up option either. If we need a goal in the last ten minutes it’s barely even a debate which one you would choose to put on out of Shankland and Brown.

Needing a goal in the last 10 minutes isn't the only scenario where you'd use a forward as a sub though. You might want someone on to run the channels, or make runs in behind or to double up on an attacking full-back or something like that, and Brown is likely to be a better option for those things.

[No_Problemo]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Needing a goal in the last 10 minutes isn't the only scenario where you'd use a forward as a sub though. You might want someone on to run the channels, or make runs in behind or to double up on an attacking full-back or something like that, and Brown is likely to be a better option for those things.

Well yes, but both Dykes and Adams can do all of those things to some extent so that is covered… 

Unless one of Dykes and Adams gets injured, there isn’t really a scenario that you would introduce Brown as a sub IMO. 

 

[craigkillie]

But if Dykes and Adams have started the game and you need fresh legs then that's obviously a possible sub you would make.

[JS_FFC]

Assuming everyone is fit, this is what I think Clarke will do (not necessarily what I’d personally do)

 

Goalkeepers – Angus Gunn (Norwich), Craig Gordon (Hearts), Zander Clark (Hearts)

 

Defenders – Andy Robertson (Liverpool), Kieran Tierney (Real Sociedad), Jack Hendry (Al-Ettifaq), Aaron Hickey (Brentford), Grant Hanley (Norwich), Ryan Porteous (Watford), Nathan Patterson (Everton), Scott McKenna (Nottingham Forest)

 

Midfielders – Scott McTominay (Man Utd), Callum McGregor (Celtic), John McGinn (Aston Villa), Billy Gilmour (Brighton), Lewis Ferguson (Bologna), Kenny McLean (Norwich), Stuart Armstrong (Southampton), Ryan Jack (Rangers)

 

Strikers – Lyndon Dykes (QPR), Che Adams (Southampton), Ryan Christie (Bournemouth), Lawrence Shankland (Hearts)

 

Outside looking in – Cooper, Souttar, Brown, Taylor, Ralston, Doig, Kelly, McCrorie x2, Hyam, Johnston, Nisbet

 

I am assuming none of the Newcastle lads defect to Scotland, although I’d rate Barnes and Anderson as the two more likely to defect whereas I think Gordon and Livramento will want to keep their options open. Even still, Clarke is a pretty loyal guy so I think he will stick with the guys who got us to Germany, although we did see Che Adams play no part in Euro 2020 qualifying and he was at the main tournament (his first appearance in a Scotland shirt was in the March window before that tournament which was world cup qualifiers, so I guess we could technically see one or more of these guys in for the March friendlies. Barnes is the only one that has > 10% chance of defecting right now IMO.

[Hendricks]

Jacob Brown.

 

Aye right  

[eez-eh]

9 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

But if Dykes and Adams have started the game and you need fresh legs then that's obviously a possible sub you would make.

When did we last start them both though?

[Pie Of The Month]

It's not something he's done in a while but there's been a couple of windows where one of the two hasn't been available. He started both against Ukraine in the playoff, away to Austria, at home to Israel and 2 of the 3 games at the last Euros so it's clearly something that's in Clarke's thoughts when it comes to a certain type of big game.