The Newcastle 4

[edinabear]

Noticed they were all playing tonight against Blackburn. Which ones do your think will make the squad?

Harvey Barnes

Elliott Anderson

Tivo Livramento

Antony Gordon

 

Probably just Barnes I think. Anderson not good enough. And Livramento and Gordon holding out for England.

Gordon would be a major coup though

[2426255]

Livramento would be good if Hickey doesn't make it for Euro-2024, but don't see him joining Scotland. Gordon is a good player and would definitely help improve us in an area we could do with reinforcements, but don't really see him joining Scotland either. I like Anderson as a footballer, but that whole situation has some baggage around it. Harvey Barnes is probably the player I'd least be interested in, but probably the most likely of the four to commit. 

 

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

A fitting name for what I'm sure will turn out to be a miscarriage of interest.

[edinabear]

5 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Livramento would be good if Hickey doesn't make it for Euro-2024, but don't see him joining Scotland. Gordon is a good player and would definitely help improve us in an area we could do with reinforcements, but don't really see him joining Scotland either. I like Anderson as a footballer, but that whole situation has some baggage around it. Harvey Barnes is probably the player I'd least be interested in, but probably the most likely of the four to commit. 

 

I do rate Barnes as well. Had some excellent seasons with Leicester 

[MarkoRaj]

We've done this thread about 10 times already 

[Richey Edwards]

Hopefully none of them.

[edinabear]

12 hours ago, Richey Edwards said:

Hopefully none of them.

Why Richey? You love us

Edited February 28 by edinabear

[JS_FFC]

I can’t see any of them making the euros. I think if it was a 26 man squad it might be more in play to take 1-2 of them, but difficult to kick someone out of a core 23 to make room.

 

Barnes is the one I think is most likely to be there through combination is being more likely to commit, good enough, and potentially space in the squad. Him getting in probably means no spot for one of Armstrong or Christie though so I think there’s very little chance of Clarke ditching one of those two loyal servants. Overall I only give Barnes a 15% chance of being in the squad but that could jump to 40% if we pick up an injury amongst our attacking midfield players.

 

Gordon I think is probably a few years off wanting to defect to Scotland. Born in England and played for them through the age groups, so I think he will want to give it every possible chance to force his way in there. Difficult situation with Saka, Foden, Grealish, Rashford, Maddison, Sterling, Bowen and Palmer ahead of him so it wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually plays for Scotland at 26-27, but he’s only 23 now so there’s still time for him.

 

Livramento is complicated. Again he’s very young (21) and played for England right through the age groups, so I think they’ll be his first preference. England are really short on left back cover because Shaw and Chilwell are always injured, so I wouldn’t be totally shocked if he forces his way into the euros squad this summer if he gets a run in the Newcastle team at LB. Conversely, his main position is RB and he’s stuck behind several players for England there. There’s also the added obstacle of him being eligible for Portugal and assuming he feels more English than anything, you’d assume Portugal offer the better chance of playing into the latter stages of a major international tournament over Scotland, albeit harder to break into the team. Ultimately I think it’s a Gordon situation where he will give it every chance with England until his mid to late 20s before potentially reconsidering.

 

Anderson is possibly the most likely of the four to eventually play for Scotland one day but I still don’t see him in the euros after what allegedly happened last time he was called up. I think Clarke would probably make him wait until the next campaign.

 

In any case I think any of the four would need to be called up for the March friendlies to stand much of a chance (barring an injury crisis to the rest of the squad post March). I’ve got Barnes at 15% chance to make the euros squad, Anderson 5%-10%, the other two are extremely unlikely.

 

I also want to mention the 5th member of the Newcastle four, Matt Targett. He’s not really good enough under normal circumstances and has only played Newcastle seven times this season in all competitions, but let’s say there was a total injury crisis in the FB/WB roles. Say Hickey has a set back and misses the euros and 2/3 of KT, Robertson and Patterson also get injured, then I wouldn’t rule out Targett getting the call over some of the other distant backup options. He at least has the experience of playing at a pretty high level. 

[craigkillie]

Barnes would be taking the place of Brown/Shankland surely rather than Armstrong or Christie.

[Skyline Drifter]

3 hours ago, JS_FFC said:

I can’t see any of them making the euros. I think if it was a 26 man squad it might be more in play to take 1-2 of them, but difficult to kick someone out of a core 23 to make room.

 

Barnes is the one I think is most likely to be there through combination is being more likely to commit, good enough, and potentially space in the squad. Him getting in probably means no spot for one of Armstrong or Christie though so I think there’s very little chance of Clarke ditching one of those two loyal servants. Overall I only give Barnes a 15% chance of being in the squad but that could jump to 40% if we pick up an injury amongst our attacking midfield players.

 

Gordon I think is probably a few years off wanting to defect to Scotland. Born in England and played for them through the age groups, so I think he will want to give it every possible chance to force his way in there. Difficult situation with Saka, Foden, Grealish, Rashford, Maddison, Sterling, Bowen and Palmer ahead of him so it wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually plays for Scotland at 26-27, but he’s only 23 now so there’s still time for him.

 

Livramento is complicated. Again he’s very young (21) and played for England right through the age groups, so I think they’ll be his first preference. England are really short on left back cover because Shaw and Chilwell are always injured, so I wouldn’t be totally shocked if he forces his way into the euros squad this summer if he gets a run in the Newcastle team at LB. Conversely, his main position is RB and he’s stuck behind several players for England there. There’s also the added obstacle of him being eligible for Portugal and assuming he feels more English than anything, you’d assume Portugal offer the better chance of playing into the latter stages of a major international tournament over Scotland, albeit harder to break into the team. Ultimately I think it’s a Gordon situation where he will give it every chance with England until his mid to late 20s before potentially reconsidering.

 

Anderson is possibly the most likely of the four to eventually play for Scotland one day but I still don’t see him in the euros after what allegedly happened last time he was called up. I think Clarke would probably make him wait until the next campaign.

 

In any case I think any of the four would need to be called up for the March friendlies to stand much of a chance (barring an injury crisis to the rest of the squad post March). I’ve got Barnes at 15% chance to make the euros squad, Anderson 5%-10%, the other two are extremely unlikely.

 

I also want to mention the 5th member of the Newcastle four, Matt Targett. He’s not really good enough under normal circumstances and has only played Newcastle seven times this season in all competitions, but let’s say there was a total injury crisis in the FB/WB roles. Say Hickey has a set back and misses the euros and 2/3 of KT, Robertson and Patterson also get injured, then I wouldn’t rule out Targett getting the call over some of the other distant backup options. He at least has the experience of playing at a pretty high level. 

Yeah this. Other than the suggestion Anderson is most likely to play one day. I'm pretty convinced he won't be back in the fold again after how he left before. Certainly not under Clark and probably not while senior players like Robertson and McLean, who were complicit in making him feel "uncomfortable" are involved.

I think Barnes is the only one with any serious imminent likelihood of appearing (or maybe Targett as you say). And that's far less likely than 50/50. Like you I agree, if he's not involved in the upcoming March games, he's not going to Germany barring a late change of heart and some major injuries.

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

Barnes would be taking the place of Brown/Shankland surely rather than Armstrong or Christie.

Or Ryan Jack potentially in terms of squad addition. I think we'll take three forwards regardless even if that means taking Oli McBurnie. If there's an 'at risk' squad spot in the generally accepted 22 then it is Ryan Jack's spot. He hasn't been a regular starter since Covid, he's regularly unfit, he's not starting every week for Rangers and there's about five players at least in front of him in central midfield roles. McGregor and Gilmour are definitely in front in the holding role. McTominay and McGinn can both play it too even if we'd miss their effectiveness further forward.

In terms of role in the team though it's probably only where Armstrong / Christie are. I don't see him playing as an out and out forward for us.

Edited February 29 by Skyline Drifter

[craigkillie]

We don't really have another defensive minded midfielder like Jack though, and I think that could be useful in certain games.

[Miguel Sanchez]

On 28/02/2024 at 08:25, Richey Edwards said:

Hopefully none of them.

Correct answer. 

[HoBNob]

31 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

. Certainly not under Clark and probably not while senior players like Robertson and McLean, who were complicit in making him feel "uncomfortable" are involved.

.

Where was this said? 

[BB_Bino]

33 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Yeah this. Other than the suggestion Anderson is most likely to play one day. I'm pretty convinced he won't be back in the fold again after how he left before. Certainly not under Clark and probably not while senior players like Robertson and McLean, who were complicit in making him feel "uncomfortable" are involved.

Where has this been reported?? First time I have read/heard that 

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

25 minutes ago, BB_Bino said:

Where has this been reported?? First time I have read/heard that 

 

On 05/01/2024 at 12:36, Barry Ferguson's Hat said:

My mate's brother works for the National Team's analytics department and was saying that on the second morning of training, Anderson was running slightly late as his sliders were too big for him so it was taking him longer than usual to walk and go down stairs. This meant he was last to get to the shuttle bus taking them from the hotel to the training pitches and every time he went to get on the bus, the driver would accelerate away slightly. This went on for a minute or so before Kenny McLean launched a wine gum off his head through the open bus doors and he just decided enough was enough and stormed off. On the way back into the hotel, one of his oversized sliders caught on the front step and he stumbled through the doors whilst the rest of the team were pointing and laughing. He essentially just packed his bags and left after that, with the oversized sliders left poking out the bin of his hotel room.   

 

[Skyline Drifter]

59 minutes ago, HoBNob said:

Where was this said? 

 

56 minutes ago, BB_Bino said:

Where has this been reported?? First time I have read/heard that 

 

30 minutes ago, Barry Ferguson's Hat said:

 

 

Yeah like @Barry Ferguson's Hat said. I'm sure I also read somewhere (though can't source it now) that Robertson had been chief among those teasing him for his indecisiveness in picking Scotland in the first place. I guess you either deal with that sort of thing in a team environment or you don't. Knowing him personally for instance I would imagine if Lyndon Dykes got any of that he'd have been giving it back pretty quick. Presumably Adams did too if it happened with him.

[2426255]

Who knows why he left. I'd not think Steve Clarke would be that happy if players were making the guy feel unwelcome, but that kind of thing does go on.

I had assumed his head was turned by England or when he actually showed up for Scotland he had second thoughts, I hadn't really considered it might have been personality related or that he was thin-skinned. I haven't seen anything conclusive on why he actually left and I'm not taking what @Barry Ferguson's Hat has said seriously. 

[Quentin Taranbino]

Yeah there was a few things going round at the time of similar nature. 

If the above stories are true, I do feel a bit sorry for him. That's shite patter to do to a young lad who is on his first international trip and will presumably be nervous or anxious about fitting in anyway. It should be obvious if someone who is the butt of the joke, isn't really enjoying it and that's when the senior players need to be stepping in, not joining in.

People may say he should be more thick skinned and join in the lads lads lads banter but as someone who was picked on when younger, I can sympathise why he decided to bolt.

Again.....if its true 

[The Algebraist]

13 hours ago, Quentin Taranbino said:

Yeah there was a few things going round at the time of similar nature. 

If the above stories are true, I do feel a bit sorry for him. That's shite patter to do to a young lad who is on his first international trip and will presumably be nervous or anxious about fitting in anyway. It should be obvious if someone who is the butt of the joke, isn't really enjoying it and that's when the senior players need to be stepping in, not joining in.

People may say he should be more thick skinned and join in the lads lads lads banter but as someone who was picked on when younger, I can sympathise why he decided to bolt.

Again.....if its true 

I think the stuff above was just tongue in cheek when I raised similar points to you. It's literally "my uncle works for Nintendo.".

I also think it's likely that the national team has quite a strong culture. The positives will outweigh the negatives but if it has got out of hand Clarke needs to get it under. I doubt he will struggle to do so. The most likely explanation regarding Elliot in my view is that "uncomfortable" just meant that he wasn't ready to be there for a number of reasons, it's one thing showing up at the table but another to go all in. 

Edited March 1 by The Algebraist

[Virtual Insanity]

Unfair to question Barry Ferguson's Hat's integrity. The level of detail contained within his report is far too specific to be fabricated nonsense.