Newbornbairn Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 43 minutes ago, Fullerene said: Haiti would be in better shape if not for the horrendous treatment by other countries, especially France and the USA, France allowed the revolt as long as they still got their money. Haiti was forced to pay a staggering amount to France. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/10/05/1042518732/-the-greatest-heist-in-history-how-haiti-was-forced-to-pay-reparations-for-freed Also, Haiti was boycotted by other countries that still had slavery. In the USA, slaves accounted for 57% of the population in South Carolina and Mississippi was similar. The last thing they wanted was for Haiti to be a success. It would be in better shape if it weren't for the genocide at it's inception. Set themselves up as a racist pariah state from the outset. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haitian_massacre Quote In the 1805 constitution, all citizens were defined as "black".[43] The constitution also banned white men from owning land, except for people already born or born in the future to white women who were naturalized as Haitian citizens and the Germans and Poles who got Haitian citizenship.[39][44] The massacre had a long-lasting effect on the view of the Haitian Revolution. It helped to create a legacy of racial hostility in Haitian society.[43] Girard writes in his book Paradise Lost: "Despite all of Dessalines' efforts at rationalization, the massacres were as inexcusable as they were foolish."[40] Trinidadian historian C. L. R. James concurred with this view in his breakthrough work The Black Jacobins, writing that "the unfortunate country... was ruined economically, its population lacking in social culture, [and] had its difficulties doubled by this massacre". James wrote that the massacre was "not policy but revenge, and revenge has no place in politics".[45] -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said: It would be in better shape if it weren't for the genocide at it's inception You've got to start somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: It would be in better shape if it weren't for the genocide at it's inception. Set themselves up as a racist pariah state from the outset. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haitian_massacre No, they never set themselves up to fail. The conditions forced upon Haiti by outside forces for its entire existence mean that it would be foolish to expect any different outcome. The victims of slavery and colonialism are not responsible for the conditions in which they find themselves. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Aye, right you are Chief. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, MazzyStar said: No, they never set themselves up to fail. The conditions forced upon Haiti by outside forces for its entire existence mean that it would be foolish to expect any different outcome. The victims of slavery and colonialism are not responsible for the conditions in which they find themselves. I don't think what you're saying and what NBB is saying are mutually exclusive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: It would be in better shape if it weren't for the genocide at it's inception. Set themselves up as a racist pariah state from the outset. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haitian_massacre If you're a completely ignorant moron who thinks that 1805 marks either the 'inception' or the 'outset' of the Haitian revolution, sure. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Just now, virginton said: If you're a completely ignorant moron who thinks that 1805 marks either the 'inception' or the 'outset' of the Haitian revolution, sure. Away take your face for a shite 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Just now, DiegoDiego said: I don't think what you're saying and what NBB is saying are mutually exclusive. Well no they very much are mutually exclusive, because the Haitian state was not in fact set up to be a racially exclusive system from the start as claimed. The 1805 constitution was a reaction to multiple attempts to re-enslave the liberated population by mixed race and white colonialists, most recently by Napoleon and the atrocious Leclerc expedition. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, DiegoDiego said: I don't think what you're saying and what NBB is saying are mutually exclusive. NBB is trying to shift the blame of the state Haiti finds itself onto the Haitian people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 4 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: Away take your face for a shite I can see why the armed forces proved a natural home for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Just now, virginton said: I can see why the armed forces proved a natural home for you. Piss off you cabbage-toed cretin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, Newbornbairn said: Piss off you cabbage-toed cretin No, I think I'll continue to discredit your thick as mince, racially loaded nonsense hot takes. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: Piss off you cabbage-toed cretin Not really taking part in this debate... but you can always rely on P&B to provide updates on insults... where TF did "cabbage-toed cretin" come from? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyAnchor Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Cabbage in the news a lot, recently. This needs a subscription to read. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/10/briefing/cabbage-culinary-star.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Bridge Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Bomb ra lot eh thum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 I listened to this Haitian-American scholar who seems clued up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obEWfFejJ44&t=46s I'm too unfamiliar with most of what she said to confidently paraphrase it for a nice, digestable pieandbovril comment. One interesting point she made, though, was that the Haitian state doesn't own the nation's ports. Instead the ports are all private and owned by Haitian oligarchs. Media have reported the paramilitaries buying guns and importing them from US arms dealers, "smuggling" them in past the Haitian state. Really, the guns have just come in through private ports, presumably with the blessing or even at the direction of the port's oligarch owner, meaning oligarchs back the paramilitaries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 58 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: NBB is trying to shift the blame of the state Haiti finds itself onto the Haitian people. Maybe he was trying to shift the blame, maybe he was trying to paint a fuller, more balanced, picture. I have no way of knowing. However, for most things in life, blame can be apportioned to multiple actors. Saying one person/group bears some responsibility for a situation isn't saying other people/groups don't. Life isn't black and white. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 49 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: Maybe he was trying to shift the blame, maybe he was trying to paint a fuller, more balanced, picture. I have no way of knowing. Perhaps you could start by actually reading posts for comprehension before embarking on this laughable white knighting effort: 5 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: It would be in better shape if it weren't for the genocide at it's inception. Set themselves up as a racist pariah state from the outset. Yep, definitely attempting to merely paint a fuller, more balanced picture of events by: • completely misrepresenting the end of independent statehood proces as its inception and • claiming that they lost international recognition because of the enlightened anti-racist policy of, err, massive, racist slave empires like the United States in the 19th century. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 On 11/03/2024 at 04:29, TxRover said: Given his recent take on Ukraine, shouldn't he be telling the Haitian government to raise the white flag? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 10 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: It would be in better shape if it weren't for the genocide at it's inception. Set themselves up as a racist pariah state from the outset. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haitian_massacre Thought you were talking about the U.S. there until you provided that link. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.