Kyle Reese Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: You asked why you got red dots and not responses. You didn’t like the answer. Not really my problem. No, I asked those that red dotted to put together considered negatory replies, instead of just red dotting. Nobody has actually managed to respond in any kind of way that even answers my points to give me food for thought, nor disprove my reasoning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Just now, Kyle Reese said: No, I asked those that red dotted to put together considered negatory replies, instead of just red dotting. Nobody has actually managed to respond in any kind of way that even answers my points to give me food for thought, nor disprove my reasoning. Ok. Hope you get the response you want then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 7 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: You asked why you got red dots and not responses. You didn’t like the answer. Not really my problem. You didn’t really answer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Football is too subjective for decisions to ever be completely perfect. For that reason I am anti-VAR as it takes too long and you’ll never agree with every decision. Use it for offsides via an automated line if possible. If not then bin it completely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 14 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: Every team has decisions go their way and go against them. We also won a Scottish Cup final against Rangers with two, ahem, marginal penalty decisions. You've got to see the bigger picture. The general point is that it makes the game too picky, and this is where it differs from your example of a goal being disallowed in another post. In non-VAR games a goal will be disallowed if a referee spots something. If he's seen it, it's likely worth seeing. If nobody has seen it, then VAR interventions in the game are against the spirit of the sport and ruin the emotion and experience in the ground. Football's laws aren't a science. They're, to a large degree, subjective. VAR doesn't work. I've mentioned it before, but everyone I go to games with agreed that our penalty in the routine trouncing of Hibs at Tynecastle last season was the least satisfying derby goal we've scored. An absolutely fucking shite experience. Fair play to you if you like that, but I honestly can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people I know who share your view. Maybe thats the compromise needed If the ref sees an incident from one angle, and is asked by VAR "did you see that handball/foul etc" ref says aye from my angle it was/wasnt an infringement then onfield refs decision is final If VAR ask ref "did you see that handball/foul" and ref says "nope view partially blocked/ball on other side of player etc" then use the monitor Is that a workable solution perhaps 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 4 minutes ago, Sortmeout said: Football is too subjective for decisions to ever be completely perfect. For that reason I am anti-VAR as it takes too long and you’ll never agree with every decision. Use it for offsides via an automated line if possible. If not then bin it completely. If used properly by people that just want to arrive at the correct decision, it makes it far less subjective, and far more accurate and fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, 54_and_counting said: Maybe thats the compromise needed If the ref sees an incident from one angle, and is asked by VAR "did you see that handball/foul etc" ref says aye from my angle it was/wasnt an infringement then onfield refs decision is final If VAR ask ref "did you see that handball/foul" and ref says "nope view partially blocked/ball on other side of player etc" then use the monitor Is that a workable solution perhaps No. Just needlessy complicates a simple game. Football was absolutely fine without VAR. Just let the referee ref the game. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Kyle Reese said: If used properly by people that just want to arrive at the correct decision, it makes it far less subjective, and far more accurate and fair. I don’t think anything could make it less subjective. I’m probably going to watch Luton vs Everton tonight, a game that I couldn’t care less about either team, and I could see a decision from multiple angles and still come to a different decision than you, than the referee or potentially anyone else watching it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Just now, VincentGuerin said: No. Just needlessy complicates a simple game. Football was absolutely fine without VAR. Just let the referee ref the game. Thats kinda the reason VAR was invented, refs were becoming less and less consistent in applying the rules over a season and it was affecting games more and more The recent IRP outcome said what? 13 times VAR usage resulted in wrong outcomes in the recent batch of matches checked, how many times did VAR usage result in the correct decision being made eventually Now imagine there was no VAR and all they wrong decisions corrected by VAR werent corrected, the game would be ridiculously shite, moreso than ever before (for whatever reason, ref unable to keep pace with the game, rules being too nitpicky now, god knows) -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, 54_and_counting said: Thats kinda the reason VAR was invented, refs were becoming less and less consistent in applying the rules over a season and it was affecting games more and more The recent IRP outcome said what? 13 times VAR usage resulted in wrong outcomes in the recent batch of matches checked, how many times did VAR usage result in the correct decision being made eventually Now imagine there was no VAR and all they wrong decisions corrected by VAR werent corrected, the game would be ridiculously shite, moreso than ever before (for whatever reason, ref unable to keep pace with the game, rules being too nitpicky now, god knows) Pish min. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, 54_and_counting said: Thats kinda the reason VAR was invented, refs were becoming less and less consistent in applying the rules over a season and it was affecting games more and more The recent IRP outcome said what? 13 times VAR usage resulted in wrong outcomes in the recent batch of matches checked, how many times did VAR usage result in the correct decision being made eventually Now imagine there was no VAR and all they wrong decisions corrected by VAR werent corrected, the game would be ridiculously shite, moreso than ever before (for whatever reason, ref unable to keep pace with the game, rules being too nitpicky now, god knows) Utter garbage 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 16 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said: Thats kinda the reason VAR was invented, refs were becoming less and less consistent in applying the rules over a season and it was affecting games more and more The recent IRP outcome said what? 13 times VAR usage resulted in wrong outcomes in the recent batch of matches checked, how many times did VAR usage result in the correct decision being made eventually Now imagine there was no VAR and all they wrong decisions corrected by VAR werent corrected, the game would be ridiculously shite, moreso than ever before (for whatever reason, ref unable to keep pace with the game, rules being too nitpicky now, god knows) Were they becoming less and less consistent? I'd say that's far from a settled point, and the only evidence we have of "improvement" with VAR is from an organisation with a vested interest in saying so, and based on flimsy premises. I'd argue referees are now fitter than ever before and with better access to information than ever before, so I'd be amazed if they aren't generally better than ever before. I honestly ignore everything the IRP says. It's a pointless body. You'd be as well getting a group of us from this board together to watch decisions and make a call on them. Without getting dragged down the rabbit hole, their whole concept of "correct" and "incorrect" is deeply, deeply flawed. The release this week further confirms that the people in charge of this stuff just aren't very bright. You can drive a bus through their thought process and public utterances. I can't emphasise this enough, and I don't mean it in a jokey or glib way. The people who run Scottish football, at least its public face, are generally (with notable exceptions) thick. Lots of them are utterly dense people who wouldn't make it to such prominence in a serious industry, and whose rise to such prominence can only be explained by extreme good fortune or skills in other areas. Standards are shockingly low, and this disaster is aided by a journalism profession rammed full of similarly low-level thinkers. Edited May 3 by VincentGuerin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 4 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: Were they becoming less and less consistent? I'd say that's far from a settled point, and the only evidence we have of "improvement" with VAR is from an organisation with a vested interest in saying so, and based on flimsy premises. I'd argue referees are now fitter than ever before and with better access to information than ever before, so I'd be amazed if they aren't generally better than ever before. I honestly ignore everything the IRP says. It's a pointless body. You'd be as well getting a group of us from this board together to watch decisions and make a call on them. Without getting dragged down the rabbit hole, their whole concept of "correct" and "incorrect" is deeply, deeply flawed. The release this week further confirms that the people in charge of this stuff just aren't very bright. You can drive a bus through their thought process and public utterances. I can't emphasise this enough, and I don't mean it in a jokey or glib way. The people who run Scottish football are thick. Utterly dense people who wouldn't make it in a serious industry. Standards are shockingly low. I agree about the IRP and said as much in the other VAR thread, the fact its a completely different panel from the one that viewed the first set of VAR usage in matches completely undermines its credibility 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Just now, 54_and_counting said: I agree about the IRP and said as much in the other VAR thread, the fact its a completely different panel from the one that viewed the first set of VAR usage in matches completely undermines its credibility No it doesn’t. It’s just a group of people with an opinion on a decision based on an interpretation of the rules. I’ve no idea why the idea of a consistent IRP makes it more credible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 6 hours ago, Kyle Reese said: They have had incidents overturned or turned in the other teams favour due to VAR that they would never have normally suffered. They hate it because it stops them getting as many things in their favour. Brendan Rodgers in particular hates that his team do not get as many favours as they used to. I much prefer what happens now compared to: Four players sent off at Ibrox mostly for f**k all Andy Webster told he must have elbowed himself in the eye, not John Hartson Dougie MacDonald sending off Webster and McCann at Rugby Park and Hartley in the 2006 cup final Andy Davis awarding Kyriakos a penalty for diving Barry Ferguson playing basketball Ian Brines sending off Fyssas for a dive by Maloney in a New Year’s Day game vs Celtic Allan McGregor kung-fu kicking Callum Elliot in the stomach Kenny Miller effectively ending Kevin McHattie’s career at a decent level with a knee high challenge at the touchline No thanks, I prefer when incompetence and bias are exposed and the officials made to look incompetent for their cowardice. I particularly enjoyed the nationwide ridicule when Dermot Gallagher reviewed the incident where the Motherwell player kicked Boyce in the chest and he booked him for diving. The two studio guests and him on SKY pissing themselves laughing at the referee. The more exposure these p***ks get the better This post is pish man, and if you want a reason, I'll give it to you. You list a bundle of questionable decisions (none for us tbf, cause that's never happened and certainly at least two on your list were actually correct) where you are positing that VAR would have swept in to overturn them, then correctly point out a ridiculous decision from this season which didn't get overturned. Do you not see the problem there? If there's bias and corruption - there isn't, it's just bad decisions - VAR would be a tool to further it, not end it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 "It's worked for my club, so let's just keep it". The type of selfish c**t attitude that's shafted the entire league with this farce and is slowly killing the game. Funnily enough Hearts with their "bottom tier closed for maintenance, we can only give you the more expensive top tier" are at the forefront of killing the away day too. Scabs who don't understand what they're doing to Scottish football because it's rosy in their own garden. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 hours ago, Kyle Reese said: I am sure you did. Being seven, I enjoyed the whole season, but felt a little bit down in the final league game and the cup final, but at that age and in your first season? It did not ruin the memories and emotions I had felt along the way. Just you keep telling yourself that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 43 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: This post is pish man, and if you want a reason, I'll give it to you. You list a bundle of questionable decisions (none for us tbf, cause that's never happened and certainly at least two on your list were actually correct) where you are positing that VAR would have swept in to overturn them, then correctly point out a ridiculous decision from this season which didn't get overturned. Do you not see the problem there? If there's bias and corruption - there isn't, it's just bad decisions - VAR would be a tool to further it, not end it. No, sorry. I disagree. You have not given me reasons, you have just said you disagree. Which of these listed decisions were correct? It would be better to debate them individually in this instance. Personally my experience of Scottish football for the last nearly 40 years has been littered with really really shit decisions that have been just laughed off and overlooked. I compare that to what has happened since VAR and the positive of it far outweighs the negatives. I am giving my opinion and I stand strongly by it. Were you in attendance when Miko was sent off for Andy Davis cheating? I was. What about Brines sending of Fyssas? Nah, nobody is going to convince me that my experience of football the parity of decision making has not evened out a bit since its inception. Could be improved? Yes, it could. Would I go back to the shit show from before it? No fucking thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 It's been done to death mate. There are reasons. 2 or 3 topics worth of reasons. I hink you are at the wind up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 9 hours ago, Kyle Reese said: Nah, nobody is going to convince me that my experience of football the parity of decision making has not evened out a bit since its inception. Could be improved? Yes, it could. Would I go back to the shit show from before it? No fucking thanks. That's because you're clearly an absolute nut who's obsessed by the Old Firm. The rest of us are watching games and not constantly thinking about decisions against us in games v Rangers in the 90s, I'm afraid. Whereas you seem to look at the worst possible decisions from 30 years ago and compare everything against that as if it was happening constantly in every game. Imagine a massive must win match at home. Fans are right behind the team and your player, who's suffered serious issues personally that have you rooting for him, scores from 25 yards to put you ahead. Then you have a 5 minute delay, with the goal ruled out, and nobody has a clue why until you go home and see this. I'm not even exaggerating about the 5 minutes. imagine this against Hearts? Oh wait, there is a shite decision against Hearts. Lucky you've got VAR though to prevent it happening v the OF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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