Meh-tov and Sidib-meh versus Kilmarnock 13/4/24

[Hayseed]

The late subs say all you need to know about our management team. Winning is something you HOPE to do, not STRIVE to do. 
Gutless c***s. 

[RandomGuy.]

Considine wasn't fouled for that goal, he's just old and was too slow to react.

It's a nice summation of us that our starting captain (Phillips) has already told everyone he's leaving in the Summer, then the replacement captain (Considine) goes through matches knowing he's absolutely finished and won't be here next season.

So many players who just won't put their bodies on the line (Kucheriavyi and both Smiths in midfield regularly shat out physical stuff) and you wonder if that changes if we have a captain acting like a captain.

[Saint DBL]

Even though today was a big chance to get closer to safety, it still doesn’t feel like a missed opportunity, because Killie are just very good.. we are not very good. 
 

Only having lost 2 in 15 against the other bottom 6 dross is something to be positive about I suppose? Draw ourselves to safety will do me fine, then pretty much everyone not called Adama can leave. 

[Theyellowbox]

34 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Considine wasn't fouled for that goal, he's just old and was too slow to react.

It's a nice summation of us that our starting captain (Phillips) has already told everyone he's leaving in the Summer, then the replacement captain (Considine) goes through matches knowing he's absolutely finished and won't be here next season.

So many players who just won't put their bodies on the line (Kucheriavyi and both Smiths in midfield regularly shat out physical stuff) and you wonder if that changes if we have a captain acting like a captain.

Totally agree. I'd actually go further, there is the majority of thst side which have pretty much downed tools and don't have enough character about them to put even the minimum effort in. That's on them and the manager. Club is culpable for allowing a squad and culture to be built up of players who frankly don't care enough about the club to put the effort in. Journeymen, end or career and never will be's that are coasting.

On the flip, Killie were better in every department.

[Scooby_Doo]

Thanks @Theyellowbox, the parking over the road was fine, I could see the stadium car park would have taken ages, and it was easy to get to Maccy D's for Scrappy Doo.

As for the game, I agreed with McInnes' post match interview. We should have been up by more at half time, but for the first fifteen or twenty minutes of the second half St Johnstone were the better team.

There was an incident where St Johnstone were up the park, and had a period of pressure. Vassell was fouled on the edge of our box, and in retrospect that was that. Philips went down injured, then Findlay got the head knock, then the mandatory twenty subs and the second goal, and it was done.

[RandomGuy.]

McInnes on the radio saying he identified our "midfield diamond" of Phillips, Max, Smith and Clark, and decided to gamble by removing a defender and putting another man in midfield to combat that and take advantage of space out wide. I'll put maps in spoilers but you see both that shape in our team and how brave McInnes was in terms of pushing men forward out wide.

Spoiler

Oh for a manager who looks for those things, adapts to make the combat it, and has the bravery to try and exploit it too.'

If we saw the same then we'd chuck an extra defender on the park.

[johnoswald2712]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

McInnes on the radio saying he identified our "midfield diamond" of Phillips, Max, Smith and Clark, and decided to gamble by removing a defender and putting another man in midfield to combat that and take advantage of space out wide. I'll put maps in spoilers but you see both that shape in our team and how brave McInnes was in terms of pushing men forward out wide.

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh for a manager who looks for those things, adapts to make the combat it, and has the bravery to try and exploit it too.'

If we saw the same then we'd chuck an extra defender on the park.

We have one penalty box striker and the ultra negative twat we have as a manager chooses to play him at the top of a midfield diamond. Could just about accept this if it meant he got on the ball more so got more chances but it just basically leaves us a man down and on the odd occasion we actually manage to put a ball in the box from open play Clark is miles behind the play and there’s no one in there. 
 

Another thing that really winds me up is making one sub at a time.  We are allowed 5 subs over 3 stoppages (unless there’s a head knock) but he constantly makes one sub at a time.  He either leaves players on who are knackered or doesn’t have players ready to replace injured ones. It just gives me a vibe of a shit Sunday league manager 

[tree house tam]

27 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

McInnes on the radio saying he identified our "midfield diamond" of Phillips, Max, Smith and Clark, and decided to gamble by removing a defender and putting another man in midfield to combat that and take advantage of space out wide. I'll put maps in spoilers but you see both that shape in our team and how brave McInnes was in terms of pushing men forward out wide.

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh for a manager who looks for those things, adapts to make the combat it, and has the bravery to try and exploit it too.'

If we saw the same then we'd chuck an extra defender on the park.

I said as much a few weeks ago,  it's easy to play against and you don't have to have coaching badges to see it. Couple that with having defenders out wide who don't stop crosses and ones in the centre who don't track runners. It's a shite state of affairs.

[PauloPerth]

Well done killie, comfortably the better team. What a strong squad they’ve built, even the bench has some ballers on it we’d kill for. Other than Mitov, I don’t think there’s a single St Johnstone player starts in that killie team.  For a team at a similar standing and we don’t have one single outfield player better than them just feels criminal.

We were poor first half and could have subbed anyone, but we seemed to be doing well in the first 15-20 after HT and were on top and subbed off Max, when for once I actually thought he looked positive and had started to make an impact since the break… unless he was injured? Though I hadn’t see any sign of it.

I know he’s getting played deeper than his best position, but I’m afraid Clark is another empty jersey since coming back from injury. Add him to Robinson, Gallacher, Smith and probably others in just turn up and run about a bit to look like you’re playing contributions.

Really poor goals to lose. 

Mitov pulling off a worldie 1v1 save then not paying attention when the corner smacks off the crossbar sums up the amateur shit show we are a lot of the time.

From our inability to play throw ins, to the opposition easily retaining possession at throw ins against us, to Smith’s inability to strike a dead ball yet still taking many of them…

[nelsjfc]

2 hours ago, tree house tam said:

I said as much a few weeks ago,  it's easy to play against and you don't have to have coaching badges to see it. Couple that with having defenders out wide who don't stop crosses and ones in the centre who don't track runners. It's a shite state of affairs.

The massive problem we have is whats the alternative? Jaiyesmi and Wright injured and Connor Smith - what a signing he looks btw - is nowhere good enough. No width at all. Would rather see May or Carey in Clark's role currently. 

A worry Phillips going off. Not really getting the indifference of some fans towards him leaving as he's streets ahead of most the rest at the moment. 

 

 

[The Saintee]

In regards to Clark @PauloPerth. I'm fed up of players not being played to their strengths. Get Clark in the box and he will do some damage FFS.

[The Marly]

7 hours ago, The Saintee said:

In regards to Clark @PauloPerth. I'm fed up of players not being played to their strengths. Get Clark in the box and he will do some damage FFS.

This. He's the kind of forward we need in our situation, but only if he's playing in his best position/role.

[RandomGuy.]

I think with the shape they've decided fits us, they want a striker dropping into midfield to defend. They don't trust Sidibeh to do that yet, which is fair enough and would be a massive waste. They don't trust Kimpioka to do it as he's not that type either.

Leaves you with Clark and May, and Clarks the clear winner there based on performances this season?

I'd rather just see a different shape but I think it's going to be Clark playing that way plus either Sidibeh or Kimpioka until the end of the season now, unless Phillips is out longer term. Think we'd go to one up front in that case and probably have a midfield four of M. Smith, Kucheriavyi, Carey, and C. Smith, which feels soft as shite.

[tree house tam]

6 hours ago, The Saintee said:

In regards to Clark @PauloPerth. I'm fed up of players not being played to their strengths. Get Clark in the box and he will do some damage FFS.

This has always been my frustration as well. Playing players in a position that makes them anonymous when we know how good they can be played in their proper positions. Worst of all is we all know it's to keep things compact rather than being in any way attacking. 

We all get that Levein was left a shit show in terms of a squad, he's signed five players(if you include Luke coming back). Two of which have decent potential and I'm happy with(strikers), Smith hasn't shown anything to suggest he's good enough for this level. Then you have the Kerr and Robinson debacle. No matter what they say Kerr was signed because Robinson was recalled and left us short, both will struggle to make it at their present clubs and will drop levels imo.

That's less than a 50% success rate in terms of signings. Does that give folk confidence in the rebuild in the summer, where we could be needing ten plus players?

When he came in we were marooned(just for you Craig) and to a certain extent he has nearly done the job he was hired to do but yet we all hate what we see. He's contracted so unless we have a new owner willing to waste money,which I don't want, I'd much rather we didn't need to waste money on pay offs. He's here for another year or two, which probably means we're in the shite again next season if we stay up. Oh fucking joy.

Just play a system that enhances the skill sets of the good players we have and punt the workshy players as far into the sun as possible please.

[Jamie_B]

20 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I think with the shape they've decided fits us, they want a striker dropping into midfield to defend. They don't trust Sidibeh to do that yet, which is fair enough and would be a massive waste. They don't trust Kimpioka to do it as he's not that type either.

Leaves you with Clark and May, and Clarks the clear winner there based on performances this season?

I'd rather just see a different shape but I think it's going to be Clark playing that way plus either Sidibeh or Kimpioka until the end of the season now, unless Phillips is out longer term. Think we'd go to one up front in that case and probably have a midfield four of M. Smith, Kucheriavyi, Carey, and C. Smith, which feels soft as shite.

Clark has been our best striker this season, no doubt, but that’s predicated on him playing in the penalty box. If you want a forward to drop into the midfield you’d be as well playing May because it suits him far better. Clark there makes no sense. Especially with shitebags around him.

Mention above of Max looking better yesterday and more positive - he had one good moment with a drive forward and shot early in the second half, but beyond that I thought he was anonymous. He has to take a lot of the blame for the first goal too - he didn’t know what to do and left the guy who put the cross in all on his own with plenty of time to pick a cross out. The second goal - conceded at a time where it looked like we might get back into it - was just absolutely rubbish.

Keltjens doesn’t have any attacking ability at all, Connor Smith is an empty jersey, Gallacher and Robinson are a bit better than what we have on the right but not a threat.

The contrast with Killie - who have an excellent squad and a superb manager - is massive. Our manager is far too cautious. That’s a long term trait, but also probably a result of him knowing the options off the bench are mostly nonsense as well. But only making one unenforceable sub before the 88th minute is just ridiculous.

[RandomGuy.]

21 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

he's signed five players(if you include Luke coming back). Two of which have decent potential and I'm happy with(strikers), Smith hasn't shown anything to suggest he's good enough for this level. Then you have the Kerr and Robinson debacle. No matter what they say Kerr was signed because Robinson was recalled and left us short, both will struggle to make it at their present clubs and will drop levels imo.

That's less than a 50% success rate in terms of signings. Does that give folk confidence in the rebuild in the summer, where we could be needing ten plus players?

It's 6 if you include Robinson, as there's Keltjens too.

I think Robinson and Keltjens are players good enough for this league, but no higher than mid-table probably, if they're used as full backs with attacking players in front of them. In this system you're just seeing all their flaws.

We're stuck in the "Davidson Paradox" again. Where our manager is simultaneously wanting to play a back 5, midfield 4, and front 2, while also simultaneously wanting to attack by getting bodies in the box and firing in crosses, but defending well against counters by not overcommitting too many players. Add in a squad of pea hearted, slow, confidence sapped players, and it's all a mess.

You'd have hope that a manager who knows how he wants to play can build a squad to suit that, which Levein should be, but I've a hellish feeling it's 5-2-3 he'll build towards (due to Kirk), so it's all for naught as it's a shit shape.

[monkfish]

7 hours ago, The Saintee said:

In regards to Clark @PauloPerth. I'm fed up of players not being played to their strengths. Get Clark in the box and he will do some damage FFS.

In that 'system' yesterday you have:

1. Considine - too old, can't run (not his fault)

2. Robinson - not good enough 

3. Keltjens - soft. Might be OK in a decent team 

4. Gallacher - not good enough, out of position 

5. Max - not good enough 

6. Clark - a penalty box striker playing out of position 

You can get by with a couple of weak links but when over half your outfield is either pish or out of position, it's no wonder we're rotten.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Jamie_B said:

Clark has been our best striker this season, no doubt, but that’s predicated on him playing in the penalty box. If you want a forward to drop into the midfield you’d be as well playing May because it suits him far better. Clark there makes no sense. Especially with shitebags around him.

Id imagine they'll see him being more physical than May so more suited to playing central, Clark wins headers too and considering the plan seems to be horsing the ball up the park aimlessly for 89 minutes then they'll see that as another plus for him. If you take the midfield diamond shape as true then you certainly wouldnt be wanting the top part being Matt Smith, Kucheriavyi, and May, against virtually every other midfield. No matter where you play May he'll eventually start to go missing from the centre of the park and drift wide regardless.

If wanting to fit May in anywhere I'd be playing him ahead of Gallacher on the left flank, but we know that doesn't get anything out of him too.

[johnoswald2712]

51 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Add in a squad of pea hearted, slow, confidence sapped players, and it's all a mess.

Think this is the hub of the issue. Fans in general will accept players of limited ability as long as they see them bursting a gut, running harder, winning not just the 50/50s but the 40/60s and in general being an absolute nightmare to play against. We however have managed to build a squad full of players with limited ability who are soft as shit and down tools as soon as they get a wee knock. We’d all love to see a Saints team that plays open, attacking, passing football but in general these type of players are way outwith our budget. However this squad needs to learn that you have to earn the right to play the way you want and that means winning your individual battles to begin with. 

Not one of this squad would get into the 2014 cup winning team and I include Mitov in that. 

[PSJ.84]

Radford saying there’s too many players you’d be happy if your daughter brought home hits the nail on the head.