welshbairn Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 14 minutes ago, Jedi2 said: The Greens are on record as saying that their 'top' priority is to promote Trans Rights. Should that be on a 'programme' for a govt? Don't see why not. Should it be above Education, Health, Transport, Poverty, Crime, the Environment, Trade Union Rights, Policing, Fair Pay, Reducing violence against women and girls, Immigration, Housing...? I'll let you decide. I've decided, you're at it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi2 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 35 minutes ago, Rugster said: Can you provide evidence of this claim? https://greens.scot/news/trans-rights-and-healthcare-must-be-delivered https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/13/scottish-greens-gender-reforms-legal-challenge-was-potential-deal-breaker https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,impatient-for-change-interview-with-ross-greer-msp https://greens.scot/news/trans-rights-are-human-rights https://www.thenational.scot/news/19878879.scottish-greens-debate-cutting-ties-green-party-england-wales-transphobia/ https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/11/20/uk-politics-trans-awareness-week-trans-day-of-remembrance/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/are-the-greens-more-interested-in-trans-rights-than-saving-the-planet/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65075733.amp https://greens.scot/news/court-of-session-verdict-an-important-day-for-trans-rights 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jedi2 said: https://greens.scot/news/trans-rights-and-healthcare-must-be-delivered https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/13/scottish-greens-gender-reforms-legal-challenge-was-potential-deal-breaker https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,impatient-for-change-interview-with-ross-greer-msp https://greens.scot/news/trans-rights-are-human-rights https://www.thenational.scot/news/19878879.scottish-greens-debate-cutting-ties-green-party-england-wales-transphobia/ https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/11/20/uk-politics-trans-awareness-week-trans-day-of-remembrance/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/are-the-greens-more-interested-in-trans-rights-than-saving-the-planet/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65075733.amp https://greens.scot/news/court-of-session-verdict-an-important-day-for-trans-rights Great. If you could just clip the bit where they say they prioritise trans rights over Education, Health, Transport, Poverty, Crime, the Environment, Trade Union Rights, Policing, Fair Pay, Reducing violence against women and girls, Immigration and Housing; that would be grand. Edited May 2 by welshbairn 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi2 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Great. If you could just clip the bit where they say they prioritise trans rights over Education, Health, Transport, Poverty, Crime, the Environment, Trade Union Rights, Policing, Fair Pay, Reducing violence against women and girls, Immigration and Housing, that would be grand. Don't really need to, as a cursory glance at most of them will see the words 'priority' and 'trans rights' going together, as well as it being the 'red line' for them in working with any other party (as well as severing their ties with the Green Party of England over the issue). What is much harder to find from a trawl is any articles on them talking about....guess what...Education, Housing, Transport..etc etc Edited May 2 by Jedi2 -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Jedi2 said: Don't really need to, as a cursory glance at most of them will see the words 'priority' and 'trans rights' going together, as well as it being the 'red line' for them in working with any other party (as well as severing their ties with the Green Party of England). What is much harder to find from a trawl is any articles on them talking about....guess what...Education, Housing, Transport..etc etc Seeing as you've only bothered giving a cursory glance at the ten articles you've linked, presumably expecting us not to bother reading likewise, and have provided no evidence that "The Greens are on record as saying that their 'top' priority is to promote Trans Rights.", I'm going to stick to my previous conclusion that you're at it. Edited May 2 by welshbairn 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 27 minutes ago, Jedi2 said: https://greens.scot/news/trans-rights-and-healthcare-must-be-delivered https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/13/scottish-greens-gender-reforms-legal-challenge-was-potential-deal-breaker https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,impatient-for-change-interview-with-ross-greer-msp https://greens.scot/news/trans-rights-are-human-rights https://www.thenational.scot/news/19878879.scottish-greens-debate-cutting-ties-green-party-england-wales-transphobia/ https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/11/20/uk-politics-trans-awareness-week-trans-day-of-remembrance/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/are-the-greens-more-interested-in-trans-rights-than-saving-the-planet/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65075733.amp https://greens.scot/news/court-of-session-verdict-an-important-day-for-trans-rights Thanks but none of that is evidence that it is their top priority. Off you pop, troll. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 hour ago, Jedi2 said: Point out a transphobic comment in anything I have said then. Clue: Saying that the SNP will be back on board with the Greens 'Equality' agenda in any sane world is not transphobic. (I appreciate that in witch finder/thought/Hate Crime Scotland it is probably considered to be such, but really it's not The Greens are on record as saying that their 'top' priority is to promote Trans Rights. Should that be on a 'programme' for a govt? Don't see why not. Should it be above Education, Health, Transport, Poverty, Crime, the Environment, Trade Union Rights, Policing, Fair Pay, Reducing violence against women and girls, Immigration, Housing...? I'll let you decide. As much as I may get pilloried for"white knighting" I also find the Greens' emphasis on trans related policies to be frustrating. I'm a member of that party and joined because of their economically left wing policies and, obviously, position on environment and sustainability. Trans related policies aren't vote winners. I honestly wish they were more focussed on the issues people actually vote on. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 3 minutes ago, velo army said: As much as I may get pilloried for"white knighting" I also find the Greens' emphasis on trans related policies to be frustrating. I'm a member of that party and joined because of their economically left wing policies and, obviously, position on environment and sustainability. Trans related policies aren't vote winners. I honestly wish they were more focussed on the issues people actually vote on. Do you know when the Greens took such an interest? My thoughts are if the SNP had ignored the likes of Fergus Ewing in the late 2010s, when Ireland had already put through GRR with little fuss, and Theresa May was trying to do the same before Brexit swamped everything, it wouldn't be an issue, now it's a main battlefield of the culture wars despite it affecting a tiny group of people. Were the Greens big on it before JKR stuck her oar in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi2 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Suggesting the Greens prioritise Trans Rights=trolling Meanwhile, 'raging' that the SNP appoint a serial failure as their next leader...not really given that Forbes was the one with some talent (in the eyes of the general public at least). A Swinney govt on the other hand is good news for Labour..so.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 5 minutes ago, Jedi2 said: Suggesting the Greens prioritise Trans Rights=trolling You didn't say that, you said they prioritise it over everything else. I think you'd be better off telling us the positives of why we should vote Labour, the dark arts clearly don't fit your skill set. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 37 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Do you know when the Greens took such an interest? My thoughts are if the SNP had ignored the likes of Fergus Ewing in the late 2010s, when Ireland had already put through GRR with little fuss, and Theresa May was trying to do the same before Brexit swamped everything, it wouldn't be an issue, now it's a main battlefield of the culture wars despite it affecting a tiny group of people. Were the Greens big on it before JKR stuck her oar in? The thing with the Greens is they aren't much of a top down party. They're a democratic party whose manifesto is provided by the membership. I went to a meeting in about 2016 when we were planning to leaflet for a council election and they were just about to vote on a new manifesto, which was being passed around. It was full of gender equality type stuff that at the time was only the preserve of 19 year old Sociology students. Fair enough, and it didn't seem to dominate that much. I expected it to always be a policy and something that they cared passionately about. Good on them and they are genuinely a Good Guy party. I'm bamboozled and disillusioned that they've basically become the trans party now. It's honestly bonkers and a huge, huge missed opportunity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 2 minutes ago, velo army said: I'm bamboozled and disillusioned that they've basically become the trans party now. It's honestly bonkers and a huge, huge missed opportunity. I'm beginning to realise why you were wary of being pilloried for white knighting now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Just now, welshbairn said: I'm beginning to realise why you were wary of being pilloried for white knighting now. As I said. They're the good guy party, but they need to be pragmatic and focus on issues that people care about to the extent that they will vote on it. Workplace democracy, anti-poverty measures, green new deal. Exciting things that people can get passionate about. They're making themselves electable to the few suburban middle class folk who were always going to vote for them. They're the appendix of the Scottish parliament. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyellowbox Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 4 hours ago, carpetmonster said: If I were Kate Forbes I’d likely rationalise that a cabinet position in a government that can function would stand me in better stead for the future than the leadership of one which couldn’t. Exactly this. Forbes has looked at it and taken the (sensible) view that it's better to be in the cabinet and building up her profile than be outside it and become Ash Regan like. I'm as confident as you could be, that Swinney wouldn't have been seeking this role in the slightest and if there was anyone realistically who could do it in his place and keep the SNP together he would have stepped away. What you will see is a bit of a reinvent over te next few years by Forbes and don't be surprised if she isn't the overwhelming obvious candidate next time round. Labour and Tories probably disappointed there won't be a damaging leadership contest and in Swinney, despite him being meh, he is an upgrade on Yousaf. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 hour ago, velo army said: As much as I may get pilloried for"white knighting" I also find the Greens' emphasis on trans related policies to be frustrating. I'm a member of that party and joined because of their economically left wing policies and, obviously, position on environment and sustainability. Trans related policies aren't vote winners. I honestly wish they were more focussed on the issues people actually vote on. Yes, trans issues are important but they should not have the level of exposure they do when many other disadvantaged groups are significantly larger in number and face similar levels of problems. Of course it suits certain agendas to keep trans issues in the news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi2 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Lorna Slater, the other Green minister effectively sacked by Mr Yousaf dissolving the coalition deal, left little doubt that trans issues had been a factor in the demise of the arrangement. She called on SNP members who “do care about trans rights” to quit the party and join the Greens' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) Swinney is catastrophically bald and has a ministerial track record to boot. He's better than Humza but it shows the real dearth of political talent up here. A safe pair of hands until some of the SNP talent from Westminster can be redeployed following the GE. As for the scaremongering about minority government. The SNP governed just fine from 2007 to 2011 as a very small minority government. It means compromise and working with the other parties. That isn't something to be feart of it may well improve things. Edited May 2 by Trogdor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 2 minutes ago, velo army said: As I said. They're the good guy party, but they need to be pragmatic and focus on issues that people care about to the extent that they will vote on it. Workplace democracy, anti-poverty measures, green new deal. Exciting things that people can get passionate about. They're making themselves electable to the few suburban middle class folk who were always going to vote for them. They're the appendix of the Scottish parliament. I get that, but I wouldn't trust them to make a tofu sandwich if they abandoned a tiny minority they previously supported because of a social media campaign by Graham Linehan, JK Rowling and the Reverend Stuart Campbell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Swinney is catastrophically bald and has a ministerial track record to boot. He's better than Humza but it shows the real dearth of political talent up here. A safe pair of hands until some of the SNP talent from Westminster can be redeployed following the GE. As for the scaremongering about minority government. The SNP governed just fine from 2007 to 2011 as a very small minority government. It means compromise and working with the other parties. That isn't something to be feart of it may well improve things. Dross is a significant step down from Annabel Goldie and there’s no point in trying to deal with him if you don’t have to. Sarwar’s ‘vote SLab so we can protect you from Kieth’ was fairly chilling in that he’s implying we need protection from Kieth - and let’s be real; in the case he doesn’t just do as he’s told then Jackie Baillie will be deployed to eat him. Edited May 2 by carpetmonster 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 21 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I get that, but I wouldn't trust them to make a tofu sandwich if they abandoned a tiny minority they previously supported because of a social media campaign by Graham Linehan, JK Rowling and the Reverend Stuart Campbell. I'm not suggesting a volte face, simply a reordering of priorities. Edited May 2 by velo army 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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