Clyde FC Season 24/25

[maccanee]

1 hour ago, Billy Reid Fan Club said:

Grant's inability to win a 50/50 isn't the problem. It's the fact he doesn't even try. And the fact he, Cuddihy and to an extent Ross Lyon still to this day enjoy cult status, leading to more than enough people to justify a place in the team for them is actually lowering the bar of acceptable performance, from fans views anyway. This was less of a problem when there was no-one better (in the case of Lyon and the injury-plagued Cuddihy). The standard of player now in competition (!) with those two in particular is now to be judged against......what factors, exactly? Houston is the best RB since Ross Millen, and both Docherty and Darren Lyon have displayed far better credentials playing alongside BC against largely the same oponnents so far.

 

Scullion even in his advanced role has taken on more responsibility as a ball receptor and distributor than both BC and RG, and i'm sure as the season progresses that he'll revert to a central role at times given our plentiful attacking options. Grant, in comparison for me, is finished as a serious player with the standard currently available in his place. Nice, safe and sound are all very good in a struggling team that lacks options (Goodie and Rankin, the previous out-balls for him). Barely kicked a ball at competitive teams with Alloa or Stirling. 

Bin the three of them. 

Directly comparing the roles of Grant and Scullion is a wild take. Thinking Grant is finished as a footballer is an even wilder one.

[Billy Reid Fan Club]

1 minute ago, maccanee said:

Directly comparing the roles of Grant and Scullion is a wild take. Thinking Grant is finished as a footballer is an even wilder one.

On paper, i'd agree. But its not played on paper, is it? 

When Scullion was (utilised as) a defensive midfielder under Lennon he was honking. He was also in a team with no direction, no obvious style and this continued under Duffy and McLean. McCall has switched a light on with him and he's very comfortable advanced, but also looking for the ball and getting better at positively finding a man with it. Grant's getting worse at it and with two (three in McKay) capable of doing his job better than him then yes- of the two Grant is obselete, if not now, then by Christmas. And hopefully so is the role he's 'mastered', in continual passbacks and shiteing tackles.

[HaleyReinhart]

14 minutes ago, Billy Reid Fan Club said:

Your first sentence is completely untrue. Lyon and Grant featured in almost every match post-January, Cuddihy when fit, and in the PS Cup so far two have started both and the other nor only started but played in 3 positions yesterday. They're not back-up in any way, shape or form and despite the upgrades surrounding them, their individual displays remain negative and potentially obstructive to what the new signings look like they can bring to the side.

We could have done better than Lyon two years ago without a pot to piss in, let alone having a few exrtra quid to play with. Everyone's pissed and moaned about lack of full-backs, so yes- why not have adept ones in competition as we have elsewhere? Except Lyon isn't competition- he's an infinite downgrade who even the worst teams in Scotland have exposed, repeatedly. And they'll do it again this year.

I meant moving to becoming back ups this season. Do you really think Lyon and Cuddihy will start the majority of games? Grant I can see a place for. 

With Cuddihy's injury record that choice might not be in McCall's hands anyway. 

Again, I don't think Lyon is necessarily up to it but you can't have 2 players for every position at this level. He can play both RB and LB which is pretty useful too and no doubt was one of the reasons we've kept him on. 

[Billy Reid Fan Club]

10 minutes ago, HaleyReinhart said:

I meant moving to becoming back ups this season. Do you really think Lyon and Cuddihy will start the majority of games? Grant I can see a place for. 

With Cuddihy's injury record that choice might not be in McCall's hands anyway. 

Again, I don't think Lyon is necessarily up to it but you can't have 2 players for every position at this level. He can play both RB and LB which is pretty useful too and no doubt was one of the reasons we've kept him on. 

First para- well, so far they have done. 3 collective starts from the two games. They're clearly in McCall's plans at the moment, not just to fill out the group fixtures. And it was even more of the same rubbish we've seen for years, particularly yesterday when they had their convenient "Premier League" opponent excuse. Plenty other teams in L2 take this excuse as a 'free hit'and try to have a go, like some of our players did reasonably well, but they two did not- they could have changed perceptions of them by doing so.

How can Lyon not "necessarily be up to it", yet retained for "playing both RB and LB"? That's the problem- he isn't, because he can't. Not to the base standard of professional football, anyway. This is my entire point.

[BullyWeeStonehouse]

Never thought id read about Ross Lyon having cult status. There's a difference between having that and people saying you're fine as a backup because you've went a couple of months without making a glaringly, monumental James Blunt of something (that headless chicken run 20 yards out vs Bonnyrigg and allowing them to score and get back into the game springs to mind).

Lyon wasn't good enough last season and is an absolute mile out this season. I agree that Cuddihy may struggle to get a game this season but tbf to him he looks to have stepped up a bit since last season in the games I've seen. Grant is good other than winning a hard challenge.

[DoingThe42]

On 20/07/2024 at 17:57, BullyWeeStonehouse said:

Could’ve easily went 2-2 had Scullion not scuffed that cutback in the box. A decent display. 
 

Lyon is the most cautious and negative player we’ve ever had. 99% of his passes are back the way. 

Lyon is fine as a squad player and can do a job in a couple of positions. But left back isn't one.

Definitely not a regular starter, but in a team with good players, he's handy to have around and will be fine if he needs to fill in at right back or come on as sub and play in midfield.

But he's so terrified of using his left foot that when he plays left back it's constantly cutting back inside and taking the momentum out of any attack.

Was really surprised he started there yesterday ahead of Robson. I know everyone needs minutes, but if he has to play, play him somewhere he can contribute. Lyon at left back makes the team so much worse.

I thought yesterday was a good day overall. Things are looking up.

Edited July 21 by DoingThe42

[Billy Reid Fan Club]

1 minute ago, BullyWeeStonehouse said:

Never thought id read about Ross Lyon having cult status. There's a difference between having that and people saying you're fine as a backup because you've went a couple of months without making a glaringly, monumental James Blunt of something (that headless chicken run 20 yards out vs Bonnyrigg and allowing them to score and get back into the game springs to mind).

Lyon wasn't good enough last season and is an absolute mile out this season. I agree that Cuddihy may struggle to get a game this season but tbf to him he looks to have stepped up a bit since last season in the games I've seen. Grant is good other than winning a hard challenge.

What else would you call a cult, if not a blind belief in something no one else can see? People either agree with me that he's either fucking useless or McCall's a genius for curtailing his hospital moments for six months. 

No-one's really offered a compelling defence of the great Raymondo, seeing as Cuddihy's generally considered to be on borrowed fitness time- again, McCall for whatever reason is starting with him, but the sitiation last season to now is completely different. A squad's been built to win the league, that means winning (nearly) every week and on varying surfaces. If Docherty, D. Lyon and Scullion can bully the likes of Stranraer, Bonnyrigg, East Fife, Elgin and Stirling away and get results (they also might not), then why do we need Grant at all who apparently can't play on grass? A piss poor excuse and a stain on character.

[Billy Reid Fan Club]

8 minutes ago, DoingThe42 said:

Lyon is fine as a squad player and can do a job in a couple of positions. But left back isn't one.

Definitely not a regular starter, but in a team with good players, he's handy to have around and will be fine if he needs to fill in at right back or come on as sub and play in midfield.

But he's so terrified of using his left foot that it's constantly cutting back inside and taking the momentum out of any attack.

Was really surprised he started there yesterday ahead of Robson. I know everyone needs minutes, but if he has to play, play him somewhere he can contribute. Lyon at left back makes the team so much worse.

I thought yesterday was a good day overall. Things are looking up.

Tell me one thing he does well. Just one.

[the_bully_wee]

Decent quality full-backs are notoriously challenging to sign at this level, which has been a contributing factor to us generally having had such poor ones over the past decade or so. You won't find a single Clyde fan, 'cult member' or not, who thinks Ross Lyon is a particularly good football player, but he can cover both flanks adequately (as he did in our excellent run of form at the end of last season, post-Bonnyrigg fiasco) and it's clear that McCall similarly believes he has something to offer as a back-up or rotational option. There are also other important factors to consider which are invisible to us; wages, personality, usefulness in training, temperament.

Writing Cuddihy and Grant off is absolute insanity when the two of them were excellent in the last Clyde team to win promotion from this division (and which should've won the title); McCall himself said at the end of the season that he believes the pair of them plus Ballantyne formed the best midfield in the league and singled out Cuddihy as a player who could play at a higher level, if he could improve his fitness. Both have enjoyed good starts to the season, while the sum total of Docherty's and D. Lyon's contributions thus far are impressing against a QotS youth/trialist medley in a friendly, and looking some way off it yesterday respectively.

I really don't understand why some in our 'support' expend so much time and effort being relentlessly (and often baselessly) negative, even in times of great positivity. Must be a thoroughly miserable existence.

[DoingThe42]

14 minutes ago, Billy Reid Fan Club said:

Tell me one thing he does well. Just one.

He carries the ball up the park well when he's on his right hand side. Even back in the League One days he was good at getting the team up the park, but then looked lost once he got there. To be fair, there was rarely anyone to give the ball to.

Playing at right back, he's a perfectly functional League Two player. When surrounded by good players, like he is now, he'll be fine as an understudy right back and I'd have no worries with him as a last 30 midfielder to see out a win.

Like I said before, he's not a regular starter. Looking at the squad there's no way he should or will be. But at times over the season he'll come in and do a job, then probably be moved on next summer after promotion.

You can't have a squad of starters. If you want to get promoted then there have to be squad players who will do a job when required but accept not playing all the time. Lyon is fine as one of them at this level, so why look for another one instead of using him? And I think with the amount of change in the squad this summer, a bit of continuity would be good. Who would we bring in to be a better understudy right back?

I think he deserves credit for his attitude in recovering from his real low point last year too. He never hides and his attitude is excellent.

Edited July 21 by DoingThe42

[Clyde_MM]

Ross Lyon is the only remotely "cult" player of the three mentioned earlier. He has his fans amongst the support, myself included, but I think they'd all acknowledge he should be no more than a squad player. Worth mentioning that he was up against a guy pushing 30 Scotland caps at the weekend.

Grant and Cuddihy can demonstrably start in a promotion winning team in this league. They've each got their shortcomings, as all players do, but they're not "cult" players, they're just good.

[HaleyReinhart]

28 minutes ago, Billy Reid Fan Club said:

How can Lyon not "necessarily be up to it", yet retained for "playing both RB and LB"? That's the problem- he isn't, because he can't. Not to the base standard of professional football, anyway. This is my entire point.

Can you point me to a squad in world football that doesn't have squad players akin to Lyon that fans/management ideally wouldn't have playing in crucial games but are kept for the purposes of the squad? 

Don't want to repeat but it is completely unworkable to have 25-8 "first team picks" throughout a squad and players like Lyon are a bit of a necessary evil in football (That even feels harsh to type out but you know what I mean).

[Billy Reid Fan Club]

2 minutes ago, HaleyReinhart said:

Can you point me to a squad in world football that doesn't have squad players akin to Lyon that fans/management ideally wouldn't have playing in crucial games but are kept for the purposes of the squad? 

Don't want to repeat but it is completely unworkable to have 25-8 "first team picks" throughout a squad and players like Lyon are a bit of a necessary evil in football (That even feels harsh to type out but you know what I mean).

Yes, most squads will have them. But how many of them keep going back to the same tried and tired option? It's probably a million times easier for Clyde to pick up a jobber better than Ross Lyon, than it would be for Man United to find a better, cheaper version of Diego Dalot. 

[HaleyReinhart]

1 minute ago, Billy Reid Fan Club said:

Yes, most squads will have them. But how many of them keep going back to the same tried and tired option? It's probably a million times easier for Clyde to pick up a jobber better than Ross Lyon, than it would be for Man United to find a better, cheaper version of Diego Dalot. 

So replacing Ross Lyon with an unknown quantity willing to be a squad player is a reason you are so disappointed with recruitment/the state of the squad?

Each to their own mate but I'll sleep easy over that. 

[Billy Reid Fan Club]

27 minutes ago, the_bully_wee said:

Decent quality full-backs are notoriously challenging to sign at this level, which has been a contributing factor to us generally having had such poor ones over the past decade or so. You won't find a single Clyde fan, 'cult member' or not, who thinks Ross Lyon is a particularly good football player, but he can cover both flanks adequately (as he did in our excellent run of form at the end of last season, post-Bonnyrigg fiasco) and it's clear that McCall similarly believes he has something to offer as a back-up or rotational option. There are also other important factors to consider which are invisible to us; wages, personality, usefulness in training, temperament.

Writing Cuddihy and Grant off is absolute insanity when the two of them were excellent in the last Clyde team to win promotion from this division (and which should've won the title); McCall himself said at the end of the season that he believes the pair of them plus Ballantyne formed the best midfield in the league and singled out Cuddihy as a player who could play at a higher level, if he could improve his fitness. Both have enjoyed good starts to the season, while the sum total of Docherty's and D. Lyon's contributions thus far are impressing against a QotS youth/trialist medley in a friendly, and looking some way off it yesterday respectively.

I really don't understand why some in our 'support' expend so much time and effort being relentlessly (and often baselessly) negative, even in times of great positivity. Must be a thoroughly miserable existence.

The character diagnosis is unneccesary. The next time i see fifty to a hundred grown men shouting at an L2 jobber for making the same mistake for the hundredth time, am i to assume their lives must be hell and all they have is picking on people as well?

 

Both Grant and Cuddihy have regressed massively and incrementally over 5 years. That is completely in corellation with our league displays. Of course McCall's going to point out the positives where he finds them, we're still in the dregs league and he's likely going to need BC to step it up. It's only my opinion that i don't think he can. 

[Billy Reid Fan Club]

8 minutes ago, HaleyReinhart said:

So replacing Ross Lyon with an unknown quantity willing to be a squad player is a reason you are so disappointed with recruitment/the state of the squad?

Each to their own mate but I'll sleep easy over that. 

Did you know of Jordan Houston, Kyle Connell, Darren Lyon or Paul McKay until they signed? Wasn't Brian Kinnear an unknown quantity too? Every signing is 'unknown'to a degree. And i'm far from disappointed with them- they haven't/ figured once in this discussion for good reason- they're doing their job well. 

 

The idea that 'better the devil you know'  is applicable in this case, is equal to "can't get anyone better" when you're skint- and is a poor and obvious attempt to ignore just criticism for universal happiness. We're two games in, for f**k sake, and we've seen literally the same things from the same guys who were part of the slide to begin with. 

[HaleyReinhart]

Just now, Billy Reid Fan Club said:

Did you know of Jordan Houston, Kyle Connell, Darren Lyon or Paul McKay until they signed? Wasn't Brian Kinnear an unknown quantity too? Every signing is 'unknown'to a degree. And i'm far from disappointed with them- they haven't/ figured once in this discussion for good reason- they're doing their job well. 

 

 

Yes, actually. You'd have to not watch/take any interest in Scottish lower league football outside of Clyde to not know about any of them. 

[Billy Reid Fan Club]

14 minutes ago, HaleyReinhart said:

Yes, actually. You'd have to not watch/take any interest in Scottish lower league football outside of Clyde to not know about any of them. 

Then there's a good chance a replacement won't be an 'unknown quantity', surely.

[HaleyReinhart]

5 minutes ago, Billy Reid Fan Club said:

Then there's a good chance a replacement won't be an 'unknown quantity', surely.

If they are coming in to be a squad player, they won't be a Houston/McKay etc. 

I'll park this now as it's getting ridiculous. 

[Billy Reid Fan Club]

2 minutes ago, HaleyReinhart said:

If they are coming in to be a squad player, they won't be a Houston/McKay etc. 

I'll park this now as it's getting ridiculous. 

Let's make it interesting. Bookmark the page for a charity bet? Lyon, Cuddihy and Grant to either cost enough points to throw away the title, or to play nothing more than bit-part on our march to it? You too can have two possibilities.