Just How Good Could It Get?

[Glen Scotia]

4 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

Are there any Swiss hooligans? I'm going to the cologne game so need to be aware if so

Their army is supplied with a tool that can open a bottle, saw a small branch and cut your nails. You will be fine 

[GordonS]

54 minutes ago, Glen Scotia said:

Their army is supplied with a tool that can open a bottle, saw a small branch and cut your nails. You will be fine 

You know the Vatican must be rich, the Swiss send their army to guard it. Not gonna lie, I've seen more threatening-looking soldiers.

[SH Panda]

The Guardian team / player write ups is always good, but one thing to note is that both Switzerland are good teams, even if they are not big games.

Scotland are, by a decent distance, the lowest ranked team in the group.

This should work for us though, we do seem to play better against better sides.

On an individual basis we are probably ahead of Hungary but behind Switzerland.

Hungary is close to double our size and Switzerland more than 60% bigger - the latter have world leading diversity in their national side, almost all their players are mixed race or 2nd generation immigrants.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

58 minutes ago, SH Panda said:

The Guardian team / player write ups is always good, but one thing to note is that both Switzerland are good teams, even if they are not big games.

Scotland are, by a decent distance, the lowest ranked team in the group.

This should work for us though, we do seem to play better against better sides.

On an individual basis we are probably ahead of Hungary but behind Switzerland.

Hungary is close to double our size and Switzerland more than 60% bigger - the latter have world leading diversity in their national side, almost all their players are mixed race or 2nd generation immigrants.

The current FIFA world rankings seem a bit suspish.  Russia, despite hardly having played a game in the last 2 years are ahead of us as are the mighty  Qatar and Wales?  nah .  

[2426255]

I have to admit, the closer I get the more optimistic I'm getting. I'll probably be a little nervous before the game, but I'm circling the positivity circus mostly due to the the media build up and excitement that comes with it all.

[dezz]

Last week I was probably teetering on the edge of being one of these Negative Norman's Clark was speaking about, but now we're only a few days out I'm more optimistic. 

I appreciate the jeopardy is higher with it being a tournament, one off games and at neutral venues, but for talking's sake if we ended up in a qualifying group with Switzerland and Hungary I'd be confident we could get through so no reason why we can't take anything from both those games if we play how we can. Germany will obviously be tough and anything we can pick up will be a bonus but we're good enough to cause them problems...you just never know. 

[2426255]

3 hours ago, SH Panda said:

but one thing to note is that both Switzerland are good teams, even if they are not big games. Scotland are, by a decent distance, the lowest ranked team in the group. This should work for us though, we do seem to play better against better sides.

Angus Gunn was saying something similar to that in a recent interview about us being underdogs in the group and the game against Germany being a 'free hit'. I'm always amazed at how different perception can be depending on bias. The view on Scotland from fans inside the country is different to how the rest of Europe see it.

There is naturally less of a focus on the other teams, but Stephen O'Donnell was saying he'd be worried if fans are thinking we'll get beaten by Germany, but be able to 'batter' Switzerland and Hungary. It just won't be like that.

[A Diamond For Me]

14 hours ago, Glen Scotia said:

Their army is supplied with a tool that can open a bottle, saw a small branch and cut your nails. You will be fine 

They'll batter you over the heid with one thae big Toblerones you see in duty free at the airport, though.

[Glen Scotia]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Angus Gunn was saying something similar to that in a recent interview about us being underdogs in the group and the game against Germany being a 'free hit'. I'm always amazed at how different perception can be depending on bias. The view on Scotland from fans inside the country is different to how the rest of Europe see it.

There is naturally less of a focus on the other teams, but Stephen O'Donnell was saying he'd be worried if fans are thinking we'll get beaten by Germany, but be able to 'batter' Switzerland and Hungary. It just won't be like that.

I always try and think from the opposition perspective and look at Scotland through those eyes. Bar the midfield, Scotland (on paper) won't worry any team. I imagine they will all be confident in scoring against us and not conceding. 

You then look at the players who haven't made other nations squad and who we turn too when we get injuries. We are right up against it. 

Personally, I wouldn't want it any other way 

[VictorOnopko]

5 hours ago, SH Panda said:

The Guardian team / player write ups is always good, but one thing to note is that both Switzerland are good teams, even if they are not big games.

Scotland are, by a decent distance, the lowest ranked team in the group.

This should work for us though, we do seem to play better against better sides.

On an individual basis we are probably ahead of Hungary but behind Switzerland.

Hungary is close to double our size and Switzerland more than 60% bigger - the latter have world leading diversity in their national side, almost all their players are mixed race or 2nd generation immigrants.

Obvious point made many times before but if population size had any effect on how good a national football team is then Croatia and Uruguay would be sh1te and Russia, China and India would be brilliant. Diversity is also pretty irrelevant, world leading or not.

Both the Swiss and Hungary games are wide open and winnable if we a0 don't accrue more injuries, and b) show up and perform (like we did v Spain) and don't freeze on the big occasion as has sometimes been the case in the past.

[GordonS]

5 hours ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

The current FIFA world rankings seem a bit suspish.  Russia, despite hardly having played a game in the last 2 years are ahead of us as are the mighty  Qatar and Wales?  nah .  

Wales qualified for the last Euros, finishing second in their group ahead of Slovakia and Hungary while we were third in our group behind that Russia and Belgium. Then they made it to the last 16 by finishing second in their group on 4 points, behind Italy and ahead of Switzerland and Turkey, while we qualified through the League C play-offs and got one point and one goal in our group, finishing bottom.

In World Cup qualification we lost at home in a play-off against Ukraine, who Wales beat comfortably, having finished second in their group ahead of the Czechs that gubbed us.

Over the past 4 years Wales undoubtedly have a better record than us.

The ranking uses the ELO system so rises or falls when teams play games. Russia haven't played many games and those they have played have mostly been against donkeys, so their ranking hasn't slipped much yet. 

[craigkillie]

I think that's the point often missed, the World Rankings aren't really measure of how good teams are now, but rather of how good they have been over a longer period. A bunch of Bale-inspired results have Wales ranking much higher than the actual current team's ability would otherwise suggest.

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, dezz said:

Last week I was probably teetering on the edge of being one of these Negative Norman's Clark was speaking about, but now we're only a few days out I'm more optimistic. 

I appreciate the jeopardy is higher with it being a tournament, one off games and at neutral venues, but for talking's sake if we ended up in a qualifying group with Switzerland and Hungary I'd be confident we could get through so no reason why we can't take anything from both those games if we play how we can. Germany will obviously be tough and anything we can pick up will be a bonus but we're good enough to cause them problems...you just never know. 

We haven't been to any of the past 6 World Cups and we've never got out of a World Cup group. Switzerland have been to five in a row and made it out of their group in four of them. This is their third Euros in a row, they made it out of their group in the previous two and knocked France out last time.

Switzerland aren't a big name, they haven't achieved anything meaningful but over the past 10, 20 years they've had the kind of record we would have killed for. I think we sometimes build our expectations on vibes rather than actual track records.

Obviously these games are winnable and we have every chance, we're just not favourites. 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

30 minutes ago, GordonS said:

We haven't been to any of the past 6 World Cups and we've never got out of a World Cup group. Switzerland have been to five in a row and made it out of their group in four of them. This is their third Euros in a row, they made it out of their group in the previous two and knocked France out last time.

Switzerland aren't a big name, they haven't achieved anything meaningful but over the past 10, 20 years they've had the kind of record we would have killed for. I think we sometimes build our expectations on vibes rather than actual track records.

Obviously these games are winnable and we have every chance, we're just not favourites. 

I've said all along that our first choice 11 ( we are a couple short but not too bad) is capable of beating anyone as we seen with the Spain, Norway, and further back against Ukraine and Denmark.  if they fail to turn up or we have too many players out then it's same old Scotland unfortunately.  we are good enough to win all 3 games. we are also bad enough to lose without scoring a goal

[MazzyStar]

21 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

Are there any Swiss hooligans? I'm going to the cologne game so need to be aware if so

Aye mate, they’re absolutely deadly. I wouldn’t wear any Scotland gear if I were you. 

[Butters Scotch]

2 hours ago, GordonS said:

We haven't been to any of the past 6 World Cups and we've never got out of a World Cup group. Switzerland have been to five in a row and made it out of their group in four of them. This is their third Euros in a row, they made it out of their group in the previous two and knocked France out last time.

Switzerland aren't a big name, they haven't achieved anything meaningful but over the past 10, 20 years they've had the kind of record we would have killed for. I think we sometimes build our expectations on vibes rather than actual track records.

Obviously these games are winnable and we have every chance, we're just not favourites. 

Think we just have to forget about what's happened in previous tournaments and concentrate on the three games infront of us, I mean even Wales got far in recent years despite doing f**k all for a long time before that. 

[SH Panda]

7 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Angus Gunn was saying something similar to that in a recent interview about us being underdogs in the group and the game against Germany being a 'free hit'. I'm always amazed at how different perception can be depending on bias. The view on Scotland from fans inside the country is different to how the rest of Europe see it.

There is naturally less of a focus on the other teams, but Stephen O'Donnell was saying he'd be worried if fans are thinking we'll get beaten by Germany, but be able to 'batter' Switzerland and Hungary. It just won't be like that.

Absolutely, some fans seem to exhibit an ignorant and arrogant attitude towards any nation not identified as top tier, there are very few free hits in Europe - most sides are decent and dangerous.

And if they have long standing football pedigree and are bigger than us of course they are going to be a threat.

4 hours ago, VictorOnopko said:

Obvious point made many times before but if population size had any effect on how good a national football team is then Croatia and Uruguay would be sh1te and Russia, China and India would be brilliant. Diversity is also pretty irrelevant, world leading or not.

Both the Swiss and Hungary games are wide open and winnable if we a0 don't accrue more injuries, and b) show up and perform (like we did v Spain) and don't freeze on the big occasion as has sometimes been the case in the past.

You're surely not serious right? Amongst nations that play football population is the clearest indicator of success, it even goes in a direct linear fashion in places like the UK.

Logically it makes sense, higher population = higher number of professional footballers = more players to choose from. Or do you think it's purely coincidental the best nations are France, Brazil and Italy and the worst are the Faroe Islands and Andorra?

If you don't believe me go to a bookies and ask for a bet that a nation will less than 20 million people will win the world cup before Brazil or France - you will get excellent odds.

The smallest nation to win it since 1950 are minnows Argentina, with 46 million people (more than 9x the size of Scotland).

Similarly diversity clearly plays a part too, more diverse team outperform less diverse teams. Those of a minority or immigrant background are wildly over represented in elite sport (for various reasons), you would have to be living under a rock to not realise this.

Edited Wednesday at 15:40 by SH Panda

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, VictorOnopko said:

Obvious point made many times before but if population size had any effect on how good a national football team is then Croatia and Uruguay would be sh1te and Russia, China and India would be brilliant. 

Wait.

Are you actually therefore suggesting that population size has no effect whatever?

 

Because that would be bonkers.

[VictorOnopko]

4 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Wait.

Are you actually therefore suggesting that population size has no effect whatever?

 

Because that would be bonkers.

No I'm not saying that. But I think the population difference between smaller countries like us, the Nordic states (say), and the likes of Hungary or Switzerland or Czechia is probably not a huge factor on the pitch - participation and good talent systems are. And countries like Uruguay, Croatia, Denmark, etc. are pretty successful with under 10m people. I just thought the 60% bigger population and world leading diversity were weird factors to mention, tbh. 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said:

No I'm not saying that. But I think the population difference between smaller countries like us, the Nordic states (say), and the likes of Hungary or Switzerland or Czechia is probably not a huge factor on the pitch - participation and good talent systems are. And countries like Uruguay, Croatia, Denmark, etc. are pretty successful with under 10m people. I just thought the 60% bigger population and world leading diversity were weird factors to mention, tbh. 

Ok.  Probably a bit daft to say this then:  " if population size had any effect on how good a national football team is then Croatia and Uruguay would be sh1te and Russia, China and India would be brilliant. "

It sure as Hell implied that population isn't any kind of factor at all.  The reality is that it's a significant one.