Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 v 🇭🇺 Hungary

[kennie makevin]

7 hours ago, renton said:

f**k all to do with the players. Everything to do with how they were set up. Absolute shite hawk way out to throw your arms up and say "ah well, guess we're genetically incapable"

The players are the most technically limited and most uncomfortable on the ball in the whole tournament. That's nothing to do with genetics and I see no one suggesting it is. It's everything to do with how we teach and nurture footballing skills in young kids and a culture that prizes hoofballers over footballers.

[Unleash The Nade]

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Proven by the excellent qualification and tournament showing of Eire, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland and so on.

Oh no wait: literally the only country using it are Georgia, who qualified from Division C.

6 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Summer football would be fucking shite.

6 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

It would also last from January to December, and have to stop for tournaments from late May to early July every other year.

But enough of these facts.

You want facts? The Premiership mandate for grass pitches only won’t help this problem, it’ll worsen it. Grass is a terrible surface for a winter-centric sport in Scotland. As for Jan-Dec, only if you keep the season the current length and all the “Cups”. You want a 36 game season, then it’s March-mid May and late July-early December. You want some cups, shorten the season or play them midweek. 44 games at the top level, two games a week more often so they have to play more players and possibly develop more talent.

Let’s face it, playing games on tattie fields isn’t developing the talent to play in international matches. The vast majority of even the Premiership don’t have the money to properly develop talent simply because the OF hoover up about 30-40% of the money in Scottish football…and they also do jack shit to develop Scottish talent.

6 hours ago, Fletchers Saucy Manbun said:

Also what I've seen around England. Schools all over the place with at least 3G pitches too.

Wait, 3G’s bad for football, stick to the script.

6 hours ago, SomersetBairn said:

But plastic pitches are bad, remember? Maybe oor game will improve if we all go back to grass? Will it f**k.

Some of the facilities down here are really good.  Some pitches they play on are not so good, but never had a game stopped by dog shit yet. We love it when it's a home game as the pitch is decent. 

No shit…literally.

Scotland’s climate is good for moss and poor for grass. Unless the SFA/SPFL wants to really focus on spending money down the pyramid (ha!), there will be little improvement, and playing on a surface that often goes dormant for about a third to a half the playing season is stupid.

[Dons_1988]

Just sadness this morning. So much hope for this team and it’s been such a poor tournament really. 

This isn’t a clarke out post, but I’ve defended him through this poor run of games. That last night was a total failure from the manager. You simply can’t defend that performance against a pretty poor opposition. 

It seemed clear to me after about 20 mins that Hungary knew exactly what we were about. Concede possession, defend the central areas, force us into shunting it wide to cross balls into the box where generally only che Adams was waiting. Do that, you won’t concede and then just wait and watch how many mistakes they make on the ball. 

This was pretty obvious early on, and yet we really did nothing to change the flow of a game where we were unable to hurt a shit team and they kept creating opportunities. And then when we did ‘go for it’ it was an utter shambles. No clear plan for how this would work, just chuck lads on and stay up top. 

We can do all the navel gazing about how we produce top talent (and it does need to be done), but last night was not the best this group of players has to offer. And I really think clarke has to take a huge share of this one. 

[Thistlewhistle]

Overall feeling is one of asking what if we had a real go and regret. We were too cagey in all the games and for me looked better with Gilmour and Christie on the park together.  

Thats on Clarke. Very negative. He’s done well in qualifying but shites it in the tournaments. 

[JMDP]

The Hungarian coaching staff clearly watched the Gibraltar game and realised we aren't good enough to break teams down that sit in, given how we play. 

It seemed crazy to me how we just switched the button from the cautious formation to baws oot mentalism. After the first half, a switch to 4231 with two genuine wide players would have been more attacking without the gaping holes we left when we went for it. 

Clarke has done well to get us there and we were genuinely impressive in qualifying. It's no lack of effort obviously but two games that were a massive opportunity lost - injuries played a huge part (Dykes and Hickey make us a far better side) but we still should have turned in far better performances than we did. 

Edited June 24 by JMDP

[FalkirkBairn2021]

I thought Hungary were terrible given they absolutely had to win and we are pisspoor. 

Saw them give Germany loads of trouble in game 2 and expected more of the same. They were 15 seconds away from Hungarian p and b mauling them. 

 

Reflecting more on the game I think we're far too pleased with ourselves finding someone 3 yards away and keeping possession. Pretty sure after 25 mind we'd completed 200 passes and Hungary 44. Wow. Awesome. 

I don't see how it gets better unless we find a manager who is progressive and we are prepared to lose to win. Bit like that Georgia performance against Turkey. Could have been 7-5 either way. I'm not sure we're there yet. 

[Squalor Vic]

5 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Probably agree with Moyes. We have quite a few good players and some more average ones relatively speaking. There's no shame in going out of the tournament. I think you play that game 10 times we win it 3 or 4 times, draw it 3 or 4 times or lose it 3 or 4 times.

Overall I'm sure it was obvious to all that we really found it difficult to create anything meaningful in the final third. That's been quite a big problem for us, something that will need to be re-addressed, but we have made significant and varied attempts to improve that so it won't be easy. If it had been a normal game it would have finished 0-0 as we'd probably not opened up so much to win the game and generally defensively I thought we were generally pretty good until we started to chase.

It's frustrating and disappointing to go out of the tournament, more disappointed for those actually there and putting so much work into it. At the end of the day I prefer to look at the joy and excitement it has brought along the way rather than be too down about being out. There'll be more competitions and tournaments. I don't feel any need to be emotional or vent about it.

It's the taking part that counts 

[An Absolute Imposter]

7 hours ago, Elixir said:

Gilmour should in no way whatsoever be used to highlight current issues. If we had equivalent players to his standard in other areas of the pitch we would be levels better.

McGinn looks like he needs a month on the beach. Guy played about 50 games for Villa last season. He'll be 30 soon as well and like a couple of players probably only has one, maybe two campaigns left.

McGregor has been a good servant for Scotland, but you do have to reflect on Celtic's dire record in Europe during his time at the club and wonder how that translates to matches against stronger opposition for Scotland. If he played at a higher level week in, week out, rather than be the big fish in a small pond, he'd have been a better player.

I'm not having a go at the players, they are a product of a flawed system. I don't see much senior football so can only base individual players on the odd game.

First time I watched Gilmour was a cup match against Man Utd few years back and he was impressive, has he developed over last few seasons?

As a midfielder and same goes for McGregor you do need to have defenders and attackers that are capable and willing to take part in the game. There has been no evidence of that in any of the 3 games.

I get the English feed down here and Shearer was spot on at the end; there was a lack of quality.

Where have all the ballers gone that us oldies grew up watching. 

[KirkieRR]

Just like a week past Friday, I woke up and hoped I'd just dreamed the night before.

I fear we're entering another era of players not wanting to commit to Scotland, call-offs, and players with other heritage looking elsewhere. Nothing will change on youth development because the Old Squirm will hoover up the resources and the SFA will let them. The SFA will happily keep counting the takings at Hampden because largely we'll keep turning up and being killed by hope.

I'd say something encouraging if I could think of something, but I can't.

[An Absolute Imposter]

All the comments berating Clarke; do you seriously think a change of coach will miraculously improve the quality of the players we are producing.

[JS_FFC]

Just now, An Absolute Imposter said:

All the comments berating Clarke; do you seriously think a change of coach will miraculously improve the quality of the players we are producing.

The tactics were the problem. 

[KirkieRR]

7 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

The tactics were the problem. 

The only problem?

[RandomGuy.]

5 hours ago, 2426255 said:

We had a big issue even getting near their final third. I don't know why that was exactly.

Because Hungary knew how we were going to play, and started preparing for it, about 6 months ago.

Flood the middle of the park, man mark McGinn/McTominay, allow the wing backs space. They got lucky Tierney and Hickey were out and it was even worse, but any time teams do that we just end up recycling the ball endlessly because nobody can beat a man at pace.

We were screaming out for pace out wide that entire match to shift Hungarys shape but instead spent most of it playing in front of them. If Clarke had watched any of Hungary before the tournament he'd have known how well organised they were and how McGregor/Gilmour at the base of the "box" midfield was going to be easy for them to nullify.

It needed width, it needed pace, it needed people beating men 1v1.

[renton]

4 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

The only problem?

No, but it was the margin of defeat last night. 

[Unleash The Nade]

9 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

All the comments berating Clarke; do you seriously think a change of coach will miraculously improve the quality of the players we are producing.

Maybe not, but it just might give us someone with a positive, mental attitude who can select the right players and the right formation at the right time 

[FalkirkBairn2021]

I don't think I can sit through another Che Adams as a lone striker game. It's abysmal. 

[rainbowrising]

9 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

All the comments berating Clarke; do you seriously think a change of coach will miraculously improve the quality of the players we are producing.

Apparently. 

Despite being battered in one game, scrapping in another and shite in the last game.  Despite just two own goals (spare me the McTominay "goal") a red card and one point. No, if we just push this player here another there and play this formation we will be a real good team. A new coach and sorted, apparently. 

Total crap but plenty on here think that way. 

[Salvo Montalbano]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It needed width, it needed pace, it needed people beating men 1v1.

Indeed. One of the few moments of joy we had was McGinn just steamrolling past folk on the right wing. Amazing to think we didn't then think "let's get Forrest or Morgan on and have a run at them'. 

[An Absolute Imposter]

2 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

The tactics were the problem. 

Yeah tactics were shite, but can you deny the basic lack of football skills in a number of the players on show.

No first touch, no movement without the ball, no basic passing, lack of awareness, no game management.

My pet hate in our game is the lack of options the player in possession has, watch just about every other country. Players are moving off the ball creating angles and out balls keeping the move flowing.

One incident has stuck with me from the first half; Gilmour had the ball just shy of centre-circle, McGregor was 3 metres away actually behind 2 Magyars. Not an isolated incident.

Watch other teams they move around the park in small groups of 2 or 3, pasing and moving. Creating angles and keeping the possession flowing, moving the opposition and creating space for other players. We are static a player receives a ball in isolation with either no or little option of progression.

As a young player can't ever recall being encouraged to love the ball, to create a relationship with it. Just get it up the park. Was only encouraged to play with the ball when moved down to England for work. Actually became a ball playing sweeper, and enjoyed my football. 

Oh and I knew i was a shite player, but improved when coached and encouraged properly.

Just think what could happen with talented players encouraged to love the ball.