What is the point of labour ?

[vikingTON]

57 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Re getting more teachers, what are they going to do about the ludicrous tuition fees that are a large barrier to a lot of folk going to university?

Far more people go to university than funded teacher training opportunities in this or any other year. And far more enter non-graduate or degree-specific jobs at the end of higher education than enter teaching. 

It's self-evidently not an issue of overall supply of qualified candidates caused by tuition fees then (otherwise the situation would be entirely different in Scotland too). 

[Thane of Cawdor]

44 minutes ago, MazzyStar said:

Serving in the British military isn’t exactly the mark of someone that believes in socialism is it?

Good enough for James Connolly - sometimes sinners repent.

[scottsdad]

43 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

It means that for every £100 per person benefit of spend in England, the spend is worth £126 per person in Scotland

Scotland has roughly a tenth of the UK population but a third of the land mass. That means that there are more roads, electricity lines, sewers, etc "per person" here, and it all has to be maintained.

I wouldn't call this some kind of gift or favour. Just a fact.

Here is another. When the union was formed Scotland's population was a third of England's. Gone down in proportion terms ever since.

[GTee]

54 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

It works out at around 10% of UK govt spend at WM..(despite Scotland having 8.2% of the UK population the spend is 'higher' to account for Scotland having around 50% of its budget devoted to public services, so if WM spent an extra say £10 billion on Health, Scotland gets an extra £1 billion.

The Barnett payment in the last year was £41 billion. Barnett is funded by taxes gathered across the whole of the UK, and of course the Scottish govt keeps and spends all tax raised in Scotland as well, with most tax powers aside from NI, fully devolved.

It means that for every £100 per person benefit of spend in England, the spend is worth £126 per person in Scotland.

Obviously during the Pandemic and the recent Cost of Living situation, there were increased payments by the UK govt to Scotland to cover these...Scotland would have struggled to cover furlough etc if say we had become recently Independent following the 2014 vote.

Under Devolution the vast majority of services are under the control of the Scottish govt aside from NI, pensions, foreign affairs, defence and broadcasting. Of course how money is allocated and spent in Scotland, has been entirely decided by the SNP for the past 17 years.

 

Thanks for that. So we pretty much 'hope' that WM will spend a load of money on the NHS and other areas so we get a bit more.

So all the taxes across the UK are paid to the treasury and distributed back. But what if a part of the UK had an embarrassment of resources and was paying more tax pro rata. I guess that's pooling and sharing. Not saying it's happening. No doubt London is the part with all its financial services. Whatever that means.

You say Scotland would have struggled during the pandemic for a vote 6 years previously. However every other country in Europe seemed to manage. I think the UK is probably struggling with it's trillions of debt, but happy to fund nuclear weapons, arms for Israel and Ukraine, house of lords, royal family, and generally arsehole politicians and their mates. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Hiring teachers won't solve the problem of there not being many applicants to hire in the first place.

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

It works out at around 10% of UK govt spend at WM..(despite Scotland having 8.2% of the UK population the spend is 'higher' to account for Scotland having around 50% of its budget devoted to public services, so if WM spent an extra say £10 billion on Health, Scotland gets an extra £1 billion.

The Barnett payment in the last year was £41 billion. Barnett is funded by taxes gathered across the whole of the UK, and of course the Scottish govt keeps and spends all tax raised in Scotland as well, with most tax powers aside from NI, fully devolved.

It means that for every £100 per person benefit of spend in England, the spend is worth £126 per person in Scotland.

Obviously during the Pandemic and the recent Cost of Living situation, there were increased payments by the UK govt to Scotland to cover these...Scotland would have struggled to cover furlough etc if say we had become recently Independent following the 2014 vote.

Under Devolution the vast majority of services are under the control of the Scottish govt aside from NI, pensions, foreign affairs, defence and broadcasting. Of course how money is allocated and spent in Scotland, has been entirely decided by the SNP for the past 17 years.

 

A few points

• Barnett consequentials are around 8.9635% not 10%
• Barnet consequentials were $41 billion in 2021, not last year - link
• The Scottish Government does not keep & spend all tax raised in Scotland. VAT& NI are the obvious exceptions, but some elements of income tax still go to WM
• The £100 English benefit is worth £126 in Scotland is a direct quote from Rishi Sunak when he was chancellor (see link above). Perhaps Jedi can explain the reasoning instead of just cutting and pasting?
• How did the UK government fund these additional payments to Scotland. Surely it wasn't through additional borrowing? Oh. It was.

That's pretty much one lie per paragraph. Another great post from Jedi. 

 

[lichtgilphead]

44 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Hiring teachers won't solve the problem of there not being many applicants to hire in the first place.

Especially as another Labour promise is to set minimum teacher qualification levels & stop situations like unqualified PE teachers taking maths classes, which I believe still happens down south. (I would be delighted to be proved wrong on this one)

Edited July 11 by lichtgilphead

[DeeTillEhDeh]

10 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Especially as another Labour promise is to set minimum teacher qualification levels & stop situations like unqualified PE teachers taking maths classes, which I believe still happens down south. (I would be delighted to be proved wrong on this one)

That technically happens here as well - Maths classes for BGE pupils going to cover because of the shortage of qualified Maths teachers.

It's not even a case of providing more student teacher places because they can't fill those either. 

In my own school we had, until last year, 2 vacancies in Maths for almost 3 years. In my own subject area, Business Studies, I've been short-staffed for almost 3 years now due to maternity and secondments to other Business Studies departments in an even worse position - there are no applicants when temporary vacancies are advertised.

[lichtgilphead]

8 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That technically happens here as well - Maths classes for BGE pupils going to cover because of the shortage of qualified Maths teachers.

It's not even a case of providing more student teacher places because they can't fill those either. 

In my own school we had, until last year, 2 vacancies in Maths for almost 3 years. In my own subject area, Business Studies, I've been short-staffed for almost 3 years now due to maternity and secondments to other Business Studies departments in an even worse position - there are no applicants when temporary vacancies are advertised.

It's a shame that this still happens anywhere.

[Jedi2]

Glad to see @lichtgilphead an authority on every subject under the sun is now an expert on Education as well.

[scottsdad]

16 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Glad to see @lichtgilphead an authority on every subject under the sun is now an expert on Education as well.

This is the politics section of a Scottish football forum. Here we have a load of subjects discussed by a variety of people with differing backgrounds and experiences. It should be done with a bit of courtesy and respect as per Div's post at the head of this section.

No need at all for a swipe like this.

[lichtgilphead]

36 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Glad to see @lichtgilphead an authority on every subject under the sun is now an expert on Education as well.

I didn't realise that we had to have a formal qualification in a subject to comment on it.

I assume that in future @Jedi2 will just comment on teaching & PhD's.

[Fullerene]

7 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

I didn't realise that we had to have a formal qualification in a subject to comment on it.

I assume that in future @Jedi2 will just comment on teaching & PhD's.

I assume he also knows something about light sabres.

[Arthur Orton]

31 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

This is the politics section of a Scottish football forum. Here we have a load of subjects discussed by a variety of people with differing backgrounds and experiences. It should be done with a bit of courtesy and respect as per Div's post at the head of this section.

No need at all for a swipe like this.

The continued petty bickering from both of them gives off serious HB/Supras vibes from back in the day.

They need to either each put each other on ignore or continue their obsession with each other via PM.

Either way they can both have the weekend off to do other things.

 

Edited July 12 by Arthur Orton

[Mark Connolly]

41 minutes ago, Arthur Orton said:

The continued petty bickering from both of them gives off serious HB/Supras vibes from back in the day.

They need to either each put each other on ignore or continue their obsession with each other via PM.

Either way they can both have the weekend off to do other things.

 

Are they definitely two different posters?

[strichener]

2 hours ago, scottsdad said:

This is the politics section of a Scottish football forum. Here we have a load of subjects discussed by a variety of people with differing backgrounds and experiences. It should be done with a bit of courtesy and respect as per Div's post at the head of this section.

No need at all for a swipe like this.

Get a grip, the guy is constantly called a liar in every post.  I don't see any condemnation of this.

[Gordon EF]

14 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

 

It means that for every £100 per person benefit of spend in England, the spend is worth £126 per person in Scotland.

 

Not according to the UK government, who put public spending in Scotland at 15% higher than the UK average, not 26%.

[Alan Twelve]

For all that the story seems already to have disappeared from the front pages, the price rises announced yesterday for water in England and Wales were a fucking outrage, quite frankly, and I think this is a problem that's not going to go away for the new government. Of course they seem content to do nothing about it.

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Are they definitely two different posters?

Yeah, only one has an imaginary PhD.

[Fullerene]

22 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Yeah, only one has an imaginary PhD.

Only one imaginary PhD!

I've got three.