El Final: 🇪🇸 Spain v England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[Stevie Kirk]

2 hours ago, Jaggy McJagface said:

They could chuck money at him right enough, but he’s already got heaps of cash and I’d expect he’s the type of guy to prefer a job where he can realistically win a World Cup.

So he won’t be going for the England job then.

[Stevie Kirk]

1 hour ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

That was way over the line for me.   By all means want them to win,  but sulking like a 5 year old on commentary is pathetic

And also very very funny

[Thereisalight..]

So many users still here, probably the best thread on here this year along with the Stranraer v EK one  

[rollstar]

1 hour ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

That was way over the line for me.   By all means want them to win,  but sulking like a 5 year old on commentary is pathetic

I lost what little respect I had for Clive Tyldesley as a commentator when he did the same after Croatia scored their second in 2018.

[ICTChris]

4 hours ago, Michael W said:

He was getting some grief last night as they'd spotted he's manged one touch in the box across both Euro finals. For a scabby poacher, that's very bad. They left it there and weren't exactly calling for Watkins/Toney or someone with a bit more about them start instead. 

I did think it's starting to dawn on Southgate since he's started subbing him regularly. 

I think it really emphasises the importance of pressing in modern football that a guy like Kane, an absolute goal machine, the current European golden boot winner, all-time leading scorer for his country, is kind of a hinderence to his team.  I don't think that England would have won if they'd started Watkins, of course, they were outclassed really.  It was pretty obvious through the game that Spain could answer anything that England had and when England did manage to create an opening and score Spain raised their game significantly.

 

Southgate has been a remarkably successful England manager - a semi-final and quarter-final in the World Cup combined with two European Championship finals.  Consider that in the four tournaments before Southgate took over England only managed to get to the first knockout stage and lose in three and went out in the group stage in the other.  Southgate is the first England manager to win a knockout game in a European Championship since Terry Venables in Euro96.  He won six games in two World Cup finals, the same number as England had managed in the previous four world cups.  I think he's made them very organised defensively, certainly they withstood a lot of pressure last night.  

[Thereisalight..]

47 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

I'm genuinely surprised they had as many as 22 shots on target. Thought it might even have been barely into double figures.

Me too. I'd actually doubt that 22 shots on target stat. They never had one in the first knockout game until that overhead kick in the 92nd min or whatever it was. Can only recall one or 2 v Switzerland. 22 shots perhaps but definitely not shots on target 

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

It's still an absoloute guarantee that they'll end up getting San Marino, St KIlda and Fort William in the draw.

 

[Bairnardo]

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

Never is that injury time done.

[Sergeant Wilson]

51 minutes ago, AUcal said:

 

I love what they've done with the place.

[Elixir]

At least something's coming home.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

13 minutes ago, Elixir said:

At least something's coming home.

I don't know what's more reprehensible you making that joke, or me laughing at it!

 

 

Edited July 15 by topcat(The most tip top)

[Arch Stanton]

 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

3 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

Kyle Walker has had a woeful tournament, but surely this will be his last. Trippier is only a few months younger so he is surely done too. That leaves them looking towards Trent as a starter at RB (particularly if Southgate stays on as White is out the picture) 

At left back Luke Shaw is increasingly injury prone and will be 31 by the next tournament. They definitely need a refresh in a few areas.

Rhys James will be the right back. He's a far better defender than Trent. Or maybe White if Southgate moves on. Livramento may come into the picture.

Chilwell and Shaw will be fine for a couple of tournaments yet. Surprised they didn't take Chilwell to this one tbh.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

34 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Me too. I'd actually doubt that 22 shots on target stat. They never had one in the first knockout game until that overhead kick in the 92nd min or whatever it was. Can only recall one or 2 v Switzerland. 22 shots perhaps but definitely not shots on target 

It was actually 25 including the final, not 22.  Never had more than 5 shots on target in any game

[Michael W]

9 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I think it really emphasises the importance of pressing in modern football that a guy like Kane, an absolute goal machine, the current European golden boot winner, all-time leading scorer for his country, is kind of a hinderence to his team.  I don't think that England would have won if they'd started Watkins, of course, they were outclassed really.  It was pretty obvious through the game that Spain could answer anything that England had and when England did manage to create an opening and score Spain raised their game significantly.

 

Southgate has been a remarkably successful England manager - a semi-final and quarter-final in the World Cup combined with two European Championship finals.  Consider that in the four tournaments before Southgate took over England only managed to get to the first knockout stage and lose in three and went out in the group stage in the other.  Southgate is the first England manager to win a knockout game in a European Championship since Terry Venables in Euro96.  He won six games in two World Cup finals, the same number as England had managed in the previous four world cups.  I think he's made them very organised defensively, certainly they withstood a lot of pressure last night.  

Agreed. Whilst England looked better without Kane, it didn't take away from the fundamental fact that they were comprehensively outplayed. There were two choices, ultimately - match Spain in style or attempt to counter it by playing differently to Spain. England chose the latter, even if this was simply playing the way they'd played all tournament; it didn't work. If they had tried going tie to toe with Spain in the way that many of their fans would've preferred, they'd have been horsed because they can't play that way with what they'v got. Even with the usual Southgate defensively-minded set up, Spain created a fair number of chances and also found a lot of space despite the number of England jerseys around them. A very impressive performance from them last night. 

Back to Kane, the manner of play certainly didn't suit him, but he is essentially a poacher and a penalty merchant. He was at his best for England when Raheem Sterling would cut inside and put the ball eight yards out for him to tap in. In theory, that's what Saka and Foden were on the pitch to do, but both were largely garbage all tournament. Whether that's a result of Southgate's style or they were just off the boil, I don't know. 

Southgate gets far too much criticism whilst being England's most successful manager in the modern game. There is no denying they are terrible to watch, but having some excellent attacking players on its own does not equal swashbuckling football and it certainly does not win trophies. Look at Argentina from 2010-2018 for example: peak Messi, peak Di Maria and other fantastic forwards. They failed to win the World Cup, but managed it in 2022 when they were relatively unfancied, because the sum of the parts was greater than the individual talent from previous editions. 

I think that's where England are. The attacking options obscure the fact that their defence isn't very good and was repeatedly stretched from the QF onwards. Walker's legs appear to have gone and suddenly a multitude of sins is no longer masked. The middle of midfield, they have Bellingham, but Rice is an overpriced average player and Mainoo is yet another overhyped teenager. He might well be a wonderful player one day, but he is miles off being an elite player at the moment. They are not capable of dominating possession or pressing like Spain do and therefore their style has to be adapted to compensate. 

TLDR: some very good forwards does not make a team that wins trophies. 

[Utdtillidie2]

Beautiful day.

[Elixir]

    

[Jacksgranda]

4 hours ago, Jambomo said:

Oh maybe, I don’t know his political views. He played a lot for the Spanish team though and I thought I’d heard it spoken about that he might want to manage them one day, I may have been wrong there though. 

But does he know the words to the national anthem? That's the question...

[Binos]

1 hour ago, Zetterlund said:

One of the things I'll take away from the tournament is how disappointing Jude Bellingham was. Overhead goal aside there were some games where he was largely anonymous, and this was mostly against teams England would expect to be dominating. Maybe Nigel-ball just doesn't get the best out of him.

He also revealed himself to be a diving, whingeing twat, with his heads gone laying into the drinks boxes after the final whistle last night the icing on his tournament cake.

In the semi lequipe gave him 3/10 saying he was hiding