El Final: 🇪🇸 Spain v England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[Thumper]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Now that the outcome turned out to be good, I was thinking what it would have actuallly been like if they had won it.

Like a more gammony version of Triumph of the Will.

[19QOS19]

5 hours ago, Junior_Arab said:

Speaking of entitled and moronic people, I just had Talksport on for the first (and likely last) time. I have never heard a bigger gobshite drivel merchant than that Lianne Sanderson in my life. 
 

“THIS WAS AN AVERAGE SPAIN SIDE”

Someone might want to tell that to the France, Germany, Croatia, Italy and England teams who they played off the park, all of whom (except Italy, admittedly) apparently contain generational talents at either end of their careers. 
 

“ ALF THEIR PLAYERS PLAY FOR REAL SOCIEDAD!”

By that token half the England players play for Crystal Palace. 
 

“WOULD YOU SWAP KYLE WALKER FOR DANI CARVAJAL?!!!”

Ummm. Probably? Walker’s good. He’s certainly quick. But if you were going to attempt to make this point would you pick on the most decorated full back of his generation as your example? 

They never ever learn. No one has claimed England don't have good players but the whole reason "average" sides like Spain and Italy (the last tournament) win things is because they are a team. England are and always have been for as long as I can remember, a side full of very good individuals. 

 

 

Can't wait for the next England manager to be announced. I'm going for a foreigner, he'll do poorly by their ridiculous standards and they'll be calling for an Englishman. Rinse and repeat. 

[Binos]

6 hours ago, Highlandmagar said:

Graham Potter next?

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

1 hour ago, dirty dingus said:

He was too woke for the gammons. He's had a target on his back since taking a knee and him criticising fans for invading wembley and for the hate messages after the last Euros.

Yes, he shamed them. I don't think I heard any german bombers songs, there is a different atmosphere at the England games. They have songs about their players instead of songs about wars.

[VincentGuerin]

1 hour ago, Michael W said:

Fabio Capello made an arse of a very easy group. Southgate got Belgium, who were still around their peak strength and indeed beat England twice in the tournament. 

Remember the arrogance dripping off the press after the WC2010 draw? They played Germany owing to Capello's failure to finish top of what should've been an easy group. An easier path should have prevailed for them. 

 

You've missed the point.

Capello made an arse of that group by getting 5 points from it and finishing second.

Southgate has committed both of those sins. He finished second in his group in 2018 and was actively rewarded for it. All the other English managers to finish second have been punished by the draw. Southgate is the exception. Had they beaten Belgium and topped the group, they'd have had a harder run.

Just a fortnight ago he took 5 points from a group containing Serbia, Denmark, and Slovenia. He got away with that. He can't do wrong for doing right. Whatever happened at a tournament worked out to his benefit.

Then even his predecessors who won groups, like Sven and Hodgson, still got harder draws afterwards than Southgate.

He's avoided picking up any terrible results, which is to his creit. But only Hodgson of his modern predecessors had any really bad tournament results. The issue with Southgate is that whatever happened at a tournament, good, bad, or indifferent, England's piece of toast landed butter up.

Edited July 16 by VincentGuerin

[GordonD]

36 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Can't wait for the next England manager to be announced. I'm going for a foreigner, he'll do poorly by their ridiculous standards and they'll be calling for an Englishman. Rinse and repeat. 

What's Berti Vogts doing these days?

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Can't argue with any of this tbf.

 

[Charnwood]

He missed a trick by basically not giving a stuff about the Nations League. 

It would have given his team a bit more tournament experience and a chance to try out different things under tournament conditions. 

Last 2 winners, France and Spain.

England in qualification came 3rd to Denmark and Belgium, and then 4th to Italy, Germany and Hungary (shiver).

It's the attitude down here to call them "glorified friendlies" without the gumption to realise it could have been a benefit to qualify. 

Shame......

[VincentGuerin]

7 minutes ago, Charnwood said:

He missed a trick by basically not giving a stuff about the Nations League. 

It would have given his team a bit more tournament experience and a chance to try out different things under tournament conditions. 

Last 2 winners, France and Spain.

England in qualification came 3rd to Denmark and Belgium, and then 4th to Italy, Germany and Hungary (shiver).

It's the attitude down here to call them "glorified friendlies" without the gumption to realise it could have been a benefit to qualify. 

Shame......

If they end up using the Nations League rankings to decide World Cup qualifying pots, that relegation could be very costly.

[TheScarf]

When you see it written like this it’s almost criminal how easy their run was compared to Spain. It never gets talked about though, it’s an elephant the size of a continent in the room whenever they get to a tournament.

 

Edited July 16 by TheScarf

[tongue_tied_danny]

2 hours ago, AUcal said:

Some more great Southgate unity on show.

Hey, there you, with the sad face...etc etc

 

The p***k with the vest and man bun appeared to be punching a woman at the end there.

Should be prosecuted for that and for his questionable attire.

[19QOS19]

30 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

When you see it written like this it’s almost criminal how easy their run was compared to Spain. It never gets talked about though, it’s an elephant the size of a continent in the room whenever they get to a tournament.

 

Two tournaments in a row no less. Had they had Spain's side of the draw they would have been nowhere near the final. 

[Ocelot1877]

Listening to the rest is football podcast ( a guilty pleasure of mine admittedly) as they had uploaded their episode after the final. For the most part they admit that they didn’t deserve to win the tournament, overall they were poor etc. 

 

Obviously it’s an English football podcast with ex English players but some of the hubris and ego even now is utterly bizzare ( something that obviously is expected with them). The part that really got to me is that Shearer and Richards are still peddling this line that o heard a couple of times at the tournament “ we have the best player in England, the best player in Germany and the best player in Spain”. Obviously talking about Kane, Bellingham, Foden. Football being as subjective as it is and given how it can be quite difficult to compare positions absolutist statements like this are utterly over the top, when you could argue that each of those three individuals might not even be the best players at their clubs ( definitely not in the case for Foden.) The strangest part was immediately after they talk about this they are talking about how maybe Kane should retire. It’s an utter see saw, no wonder the manager and players look exhausted

Until they stop looking at football through the English microscope and open themselves up to wider ideas, analysis and also appreciate other countries leagues are also competitive, have good talent and is actually respected and well coached at grassroots they will never get over the hump.  Long may it continue.

Edited July 16 by Ocelot1877

[Stevie Kirk]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

Now that the outcome turned out to be good, I was thinking what it would have actuallly been like if they had won it.

Would they have really had a multi-city parade like it was written in some quarters? When France, Italy or Spain have won things they had a parade in their capital city the day after the final but nothing else. I am also not sure if UK police would have the funds and willingness to police the same events three or four times so I think this parade thing would have been bad for one day only.

As far as the media go, yes that would have been bad. The win been brought up in every tv show known to man, the likes of dancing on ice, love island, soaps galore etc. etc. Also every weekly match of the day would have had constant reference to it. As fas as everyday life goes, not sure it would have stay prevalent imho since it does not seem to be the case in other football mad countries like Spain, Italy and others.

 

 

I hear what you are saying mate but the thing is with Spain Italy Germany and France is that they are used to winning stuff every 5-10 years or so. It doesn’t have the generational importance that it does for the English.

Trust me we dodged a bullet, they would have crowbarred it into everything for the next 20 years. Thankfully Spain were far too good for them and let’s face it had they met Germany or France or even Portugal in earlier rounds they would have had their arses handed to them a lot sooner.

That said I had a quite fantastic evening in an Edinburgh boozer on Sunday , celebrating with locals and a healthy contingent of Spanish tourists. I wouldn’t have had that had they been papped out a couple of weeks ago.

Edited July 16 by Stevie Kirk
Spelling

[blackislekillie]

7 hours ago, Junior_Arab said:

Speaking of entitled and moronic people, I just had Talksport on for the first (and likely last) time. I have never heard a bigger gobshite drivel merchant than that Lianne Sanderson in my life. 
 

“THIS WAS AN AVERAGE SPAIN SIDE”

Someone might want to tell that to the France, Germany, Croatia, Italy and England teams who they played off the park, all of whom (except Italy, admittedly) apparently contain generational talents at either end of their careers. 
 

“ ALF THEIR PLAYERS PLAY FOR REAL SOCIEDAD!”

By that token half the England players play for Crystal Palace. 
 

“WOULD YOU SWAP KYLE WALKER FOR DANI CARVAJAL?!!!”

Ummm. Probably? Walker’s good. He’s certainly quick. But if you were going to attempt to make this point would you pick on the most decorated full back of his generation as your example? 

I listened to that as well. She's fucking brutal. Thicker than Agbonlahor and that takes some doing. 

[LondonHMFC]

2 hours ago, Comrie said:

I think this is my favourite Euros fact yet:
 

 

There’s a blast from the past, I remember him as a youngster being on some programme where Ron Atkinson was a co-manager of a lower league club. Think they wanted to sell for decent money, but he was bit of a nob.

[Luddite]

46 minutes ago, Ocelot1877 said:

Until they stop looking at football through the English microscope and open themselves up to wider ideas, analysis and also appreciate other countries leagues are also competitive, have good talent and is actually respected and well coached at grassroots they will never get over the hump.  Long may it continue.

Funny, I’ve spent this past month watching clips of / reading about the period leading up to the 1954 World Cup and they’ve been saying the same thing since England lost 6-3 to Hungary in ‘53.

It seems the financial success of the Premier League has taken them right back to the short-sightedness and arrogance of the 50s

One of the brainiac books that over-complicates football (Jonathon Wilson maybe, or Simon Kuper) makes a decent point about Britain being an island and thus taking longer for ideas to cross-pollinate over borders etc, in comparison to the continent.

Personally I don’t like the homogenization of football, similar players in similar leagues using the same systems and same management philosophies, what’s the point of international football if we don’t see differences collide, but I may be an outlier in that regard.

 

Edited July 16 by Luddite

[Cheese]

As joyous as Sunday night was, I'm still bitter that Slovakia couldn't hold out in the last 16. But then I'm incredibly petty.

 

[VincentGuerin]

12 minutes ago, Luddite said:

Funny, I’ve spent this past month watching clips of / reading about the period leading up to the 1954 World Cup and they’ve been saying the same thing since England lost 6-3 to Hungary in ‘53.

It seems the financial success of the Premier League has taken them right back to the short-sightedness and arrogance of the 50s

One of the brainiac books that over complicates football (Jonathon Wilson maybe, or Simon Kuper) makes a decent point about Britain being an island and thus taking longer for ideas to cross-pollinate over borders etc, in comparison to the continent.

Personally I don’t like the homogenization of football, similar players in similar leagues using the same systems and same management philosophies, what’s the point of international football if we don’t see differences collide, but I may be an outlier in that regard.

 

I think there is something in that. The spread of coaching ideas between places like Austria, Hungary, and Italy, and ideas being carried by Jewish migrants/refugees etc certainly meant football in mainland Europe developed differently to what was happening on this island.

I think England is actually getting there these days. You can see the impact of the St George's centre thing with the type of player they are producing. I think they still have a bit to go, but they will get there eventually.

[Thumper]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

As joyous as Sunday night was, I'm still bitter that Slovakia couldn't hold out in the last 16.

They do need a couple of tournaments where they don't even qualify. I've obviously listened to Three Lions quite a few times in the last couple of days and it's so nostalgic to think of a time when they genuinely weren't expected by their own press to get to at least the semis of any tournament they bothered entering.

Edited July 16 by Thumper