October Camp - What did we Learn?

[Comrie]

Thought Robertson was decent defensively but didn't offer a huge amount going forward quality wise.

Gilmour was excellent, still our best technical player by some distance.

McLean did a great job winning niggly fouls when he had the ball and was under pressure, giving us some breathing space.

[velo army]

Gilmour was outstanding against Croatia and oozed class last night. A wonderful, wonderful player.

I agree about Ralston. Patterson is garbage defensively but certainly offers more going forward. Ralston's jersey to lose at the moment.

[eez-eh]

I don’t think Gunn is exactly brilliant with the ball. It’s more that Gordon is so uncomfortable with it, so Gunn looks good in comparison.

I don’t know who should be first choice but I’d be happy for Gordon to keep his place for the next 2 games then take it from there. Fair play to him for coming back, I thought he was done after his Finland cameo.

[ArabFC]

50 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

I don’t think Gunn is exactly brilliant with the ball. It’s more that Gordon is so uncomfortable with it, so Gunn looks good in comparison.

I don’t know who should be first choice but I’d be happy for Gordon to keep his place for the next 2 games then take it from there. Fair play to him for coming back, I thought he was done after his Finland cameo.

Gordon isn't just uncomfortable with it, he's just about the worst 'quality' keeper in the modern game with his feet.

Anytime it comes back to him under any kind of pressure, it's getting pumped, which isn't ideal when you're trying to hold onto the ball.

[MarkoRaj]

As much as Ralston has performed admirably, I don't think he's anywhere close to Patterson when fully fit.

He just doesn't have that quick thought about him, it takes far too long to control the ball and longer still to make a decision on what to do with it. Hence why it tends to always go backwards.

Patterson may be a bit more suspect defensively but he doesn't slow down and derail our build up the way Ralston does.

[Jives Miguel]

Keep Gordon please. Gunn is always likely to throw one in at any moment. Feel much more secure with Gordon. That save Gordon made at the end from Ronaldo, there's absolutely no chance that doesn't squirm through Gunn into the goal.

[Chripper]

It was a difficult one to gauge as we had 6 first team players out (Gunn, Tierney, Hendry, McKenna, Ferguson and McGinn.)

It was pretty much a shadow squad. Which sucks.

We know that Gordon can still do it. Ralston is fine when he cuts out the mistakes. Would dread to rely on them on a long stretch, though.

Gauld and Morgan didn't do themselves any harm.

It was imperative that we introduced Doak and Conway, especially Doak, as who know how large his potential is.

At the end of the day, we are playing against elite teams and we haven't once a match by more than a one goal margin.

We'll then take all that experience and take it on teams below us and around our quality level.

You gots to see the Forest because of the trees.

That to me is a total W.

Edited Wednesday at 16:37 by Chripper

[Ewanandmoreagain]

7 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

All about opinions. I didn't think he was great across the two games. You guys watching on tv or in the stadium? You do see things differently. I accept he should have had an assist but I just think he's had better games. He wasn't helped by having Doak in front of him right enough as he's not offering much defensively to help, particularly on his "wrong" side. He's a far better player (for Scotland) when he has Tierney in tandem for me. Boy behind me last night was giving him pelters for the whole game!

I don't think he's the best defensively, he was definitely well out of line with the rest of the back four on the Croatian equaliser, playing them all onside. I saw him do the same a couple of times right in line with me last night first half though they led to nothing important.

Greenie on its way

[Ewanandmoreagain]

Gordon to keep the goalkeeping position for me

The defensive positions are up in the air because of injuries and lack of game time for some players . Souttar seems to be first choice at the moment in CD

McLean is improving and probably accompanies Gilmour in deeper midfield for the next two games.

Christie , McTominay , Doak and Adams to continue up front.

Gauld, , Morgan and Dykes ready on the bench

[Alert Mongoose]

I reckon the main thing learned (though reaffirmed might be more accurate) is that we can play it out of defence in tight positions rather than just hoofing it. I thought we were excellent at doing that in the last 2 or 3 games.

[Pocketman]

10 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

I reckon the main thing learned (though reaffirmed might be more accurate) is that we can play it out of defence in tight positions rather than just hoofing it. I thought we were excellent at doing that in the last 2 or 3 games.

I agree with this to a point. We were able to play out of defence when under pressure and Portugal in particular did press. However this was only as far (mainly) in taking us from a by-kick via defence to midfield - linking from midfield to attack or anything beyond that was few and far between. As such, the gains are more often than not no different from a hoof up the park and if that were the preferred approach, we would not have the hearts in mouths moments....

Am not suggesting the hoof is the preferred approach but we need to see a play out from the back result in something more beyond a midfield breakdown. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 20:50 by Pocketman

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Ewanandmoreagain said:

Gordon to keep the goalkeeping position for me

The defensive positions are up in the air because of injuries and lack of game time for some players . Souttar seems to be first choice at the moment in CD

McLean is improving and probably accompanies Gilmour in deeper midfield for the next two games.

Christie , McTominay , Doak and Adams to continue up front.

Gauld, , Morgan and Dykes ready on the bench

No McGinn?

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

10 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

All about opinions. I didn't think he was great across the two games. You guys watching on tv or in the stadium? You do see things differently. I accept he should have had an assist but I just think he's had better games. He wasn't helped by having Doak in front of him right enough as he's not offering much defensively to help, particularly on his "wrong" side. He's a far better player (for Scotland) when he has Tierney in tandem for me. Boy behind me last night was giving him pelters for the whole game!

I don't think he's the best defensively, he was definitely well out of line with the rest of the back four on the Croatian equaliser, playing them all onside. I saw him do the same a couple of times right in line with me last night first half though they led to nothing important.

My main takeaway from that is that the boy behind you last night is a clueless f**king idiot

[Father Ted]

After Euros I wanted Clarke punted but fair play to him, he has adapted and although results haven't went our way in NL you can see progression.

Considering our opponents stature and our injury list. We are heading in the right direction. The fact our squad is improving is positive as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if we win the last two games  and that would confirm the progression is continuing., even if we got 4 out of 6.

If we only got 0- 3 points, depending on performances I wouldn't be too disheartened.

I do rate Hanley and I think people are harsh on him

Gordon is a better keeper than Gunn.

Gilmour and McTominay are immense 

Ralston is improving with each game. 

It's looking good for WCQ, if this trajectory continues.

As for NL anything apart from straight relegation is a bonus.

 

 

 

[joewarkfanclub]

Gordon is our best keeper.

Souttar has played himself into a start in November.

Kenny McLean was MOTM last night and is a far better footballer than most give him credit for.

Tony Ralston is serviceable at RB when he isnt being hung out to dry by those inside him. Still limited on the ball and needs to work on his forward passing.

Doak, Gauld and Morgan all have something to offer. 

Steve Clarke isnt an idiot and has analysed the poor Euro performances and is evolving the team/squad.

[velo army]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Gordon is our best keeper.

Souttar has played himself into a start in November.

Kenny McLean was MOTM last night and is a far better footballer than most give him credit for.

Tony Ralston is serviceable at RB when he isnt being hung out to dry by those inside him. Still limited on the ball and needs to work on his forward passing.

Doak, Gauld and Morgan all have something to offer. 

Steve Clarke isnt an idiot and has analysed the poor Euro performances and is evolving the team/squad.

This for me too.

It's fallacious to assume that a manager is solely at fault for poor form when there can be innumerable reasons behind the scenes and externally for it. 

I'm all for giving people time to learn from mistakes, adapt and change. It seems like that is happening.

Edited yesterday at 01:14 by velo army

[Dunning1874]

I think (and certainly hope) that even when Tierney's fit we'll persist with the back four. With Hickey out he's a colossal upgrade on Ralston or Patterson at right back, and while it's up for debate I'd be comfortable having him at centre back in a four as well. He's clearly a good enough defender to do it, the only issue is his height if we're tucking the full backs in and inviting crosses.

You can't go overhauling your tactical approach to accommodate one defender whenever they're fit when they're going to miss at least half your games.

[Skyline Drifter]

9 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

My main takeaway from that is that the boy behind you last night is a clueless f**king idiot

To be fair that's true. He spent the night (and in fact the entire season ticket because he's been in the same seat for all the games) giving his mates a running commentary on pretty much everything and a lot of it was complete bollocks. Including going off on one about a bad offside decision in an incident where the officials had very clearly given a goal kick (which it was). When it was pointed out to him that it was in fact a goal kick he couldn't understand that because "the ball never went out". It had hit the advertising hoarding!

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

21 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Robertson was definitely very good, I think he gets judged to an extremely high bar which none of our other players do.

Doig does look like a very good player coming through, but whenever Robertson hangs up his boots for us, some people are going to be surprised when they realise just how good a player he was.

And i acknowledge a fit Tierney will delay that realisation, but I fear he will never be particularly available.

[GAD]

20 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

You can tell that McCracken shared the same coaches as Angus Gunn as he's very Gunn-esque. Not at Gunn's level yet, but an excellent kicker of the ball - probably better than some outfielders but tends to let simple shots beat him.

I much prefer the old school Leighton, Rab Douglas (maybe not so much for Scotland!) style of keeper in that you covered your eyes when the ball was at their feet but trusted them to come for crosses and keep the ball out of the net.

This modern style keeper of being an additional sweeper in the mould of someone like Ederson rather than just being brilliant at keeping the ball out of the net and claiming crosses infuriates me to no end.

Angus Gunn is 6'5 and at no point have I seen him dominate his box - that's a trainable trait. Annoys the life out of me with keepers these days.

Gordon is known for being a bit glued to his line and being a bit weak at kicking but he's such a calming presence and pulls off wonder saves. The trade off is Gunn can kick the ball. I know who I'm having as first choice personally.

 

Yeah, totally agree with all of this, but unfortunately I guess it's going to be the way of things going forward with every half decent youngster in the UK getting sucked into the EPL academy system then punted back out to clubs like ours when they don't quite make it.