Rugby Union

[NorthernLights]

Racing 92 and Stade Francais merger is off...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39321038

[HibeeJibee]

3 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Romania win 8 7. Sounds like a classic. Not enough points diff for Romania to overtake the Georgians so their bonus point keeps them top

 

 

Head-to-head separates. Romania are champions.

Pundits' Georgia-lauding rather premature.

[garybs]

I see the Welsh are still taking yesterday extremely well, shame 

[ajwffc]

56 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Head-to-head separates. Romania are champions.

Pundits' Georgia-lauding rather premature.

And also gives Romania a world cup spot 

[HibeeJibee]

For RWC qualifying purposes it's an aggregate of 2017 & 2018 tournaments so they could still be pipped if things go differently next year?

[Bully Wee Villa]

Head-to-head separates. Romania are champions.

Pundits' Georgia-lauding rather premature.

Not really, it just suggests that there are likely two teams outside the Six Nations who are better than (sh)Italy.

[HibeeJibee]

Why were Italy admitted in 2000 instead of Romania?

Historically my recollection is that Romania were better. They beat Scotland a few times? France used to play a full team against them in the European Nations Cup every season but only a XV against Italy and the others. Romania had beaten Zimbabwe, Fiji and USA at RWC in 1980s - 1990s; Italy had a similar record in beating Fiji, USA and Argentina. Romania seem to have had slightly the better of it in head-to-heads in the European Nations Cup during 1980s - 1990s. Only notable Heineken Cup results look like a few Italian sides finishing above Scottish regions, but Dinamo Bucharest did very well in the European Challenge Cup.

Was it just that Rome seemed a more pleasurable away trip than Bucharest, and there was presumably more money to be made from tickets and TV?

Edited March 19, 2017 by HibeeJibee

[Mark Connolly]

3 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Why were Italy admitted in 2000 instead of Romania?

Historically my recollection is that Romania were better. They beat Scotland a few times? France used to play a full team against them in the European Nations Cup every season but only a XV against Italy and the others. Romania had beaten Zimbabwe, Fiji and USA at RWC in 1980s - 1990s; Italy had a similar record in beating Fiji, USA and Argentina. Romania seem to have had slightly the better of it in head-to-heads in the European Nations Cup during 1980s - 1990s. Only notable Heineken Cup results look like a few Italian sides finishing above Scottish regions, but Dinamo Bucharest did very well in the Shield.

Was it just that Rome seemed a more pleasurable away trip that Bucharest and there was presumably more money to be made from tickets and TV?

Romanian rugby fell apart not long after the fall of Ceaucescu, with a lack of funding to the army and police teams - they had effectively been professional during the communist era.

[honestly united]

Georgia are using the rec to develop young players as they don't need to qualify for the world cup. They are not at full strength as they are trying to build up a bit of good will with the French clubs for when they need the players. The have given debuts to a hole host of players the last few week's

[same_ol_g35]

Why were Italy admitted in 2000 instead of Romania?

Historically my recollection is that Romania were better. They beat Scotland a few times? France used to play a full team against them in the European Nations Cup every season but only a XV against Italy and the others. Romania had beaten Zimbabwe, Fiji and USA at RWC in 1980s - 1990s; Italy had a similar record in beating Fiji, USA and Argentina. Romania seem to have had slightly the better of it in head-to-heads in the European Nations Cup during 1980s - 1990s. Only notable Heineken Cup results look like a few Italian sides finishing above Scottish regions, but Dinamo Bucharest did very well in the European Challenge Cup.

Was it just that Rome seemed a more pleasurable away trip than Bucharest, and there was presumably more money to be made from tickets and TV?

C

Romania beat us in the early 80's and in 91 or 92 iirc, so when the appetite to add new blood arose sadly they weren't as strong as they previously were in the 80s/early 90s. But as for Italy they pushed on and had a really talented side in the mid to late 90s that were playing beautiful rugby and regularly taking the scalps of bigger nations and that gave them the edge over a more workmanlike Romania at the time.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

The Italian side during the final years of the 5 nations was actually really quite good. Diego Dominguez in particular was genuine class.

Before they were admitted they'd won 3 out of their last 4 against Ireland, recently beaten France in Grenoble, beaten Scotland in Treviso and had lost, but lost respectably, to England and Wales

Unfortunately by the time that Italy squad had earned their ticket to the big show they were mostly over the hill and struggled to justify their inclusion

[topcat(The most tip top)]

And more to the point. Who would really want to go to Bucharest instead of Rome?

[The Saintee]

Might head down to the Edinburgh v La Rochelle game.

[Allan Jacobsen]

3 hours ago, NorthernLights said:

Racing 92 and Stade Francais merger is off...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39321038

Good. A merger it was not.

[come on shire]

Now that the dust has settled on this year's 6 Nations I think it was a successful one barring Twickers. A wee bit annoying that we finished 4th on points difference when 2nd, 3rd and 4th all finished on 14 points. However, we done our bit with excellent home wins vs Ireland and Wales, a winning BP vs Italy at home and a losing BP vs France away.

We have a lot to thank Cotter for as he's laid excellent foundations that I hope that Toony can build on. He has to take credit too. Cotter shaped them at Scotland but Toony made them at Glasgow.

It'll be interesting to see what squad Gatland picks in April for the Lions tour after a few curveballs throughout the tournament.

Scotland 5th in the rankings so in Pot 2 for the WC draw in May. That means we can't draw SA, Wales or France which is very handy. Though from Pot 1 we could draw NZ, Oz, England or Ireland. In Pot 3 we could draw Argentina, Italy, Georgia or Japan. What are your thoughts on that? Anyone with any idea who we could possibly face from Pots 4 and 5?

Back to the domestic game it's been announced that Pascal Gauzere will ref Sarries v Glasgow. Before then though a tough game at home vs Connacht to think about. We may not make the play-offs but we want to finish as well as poss in the Pro12 to avoid Pot 4 for next season's Euro Champs cup draw. We'd get an awful draw with no chance of an Italian team to boot.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by come on shire

[flyingscot]

27 minutes ago, come on shire said:

Now that the dust has settled on this year's 6 Nations I think it was a successful one barring Twickers. A wee bit annoying that we finished 4th on points difference when 2nd, 3rd and 4th all finished on 14 points. However, we done our bit with excellent home wins vs Ireland and Wales, a winning BP vs Italy at home and a losing BP vs France away.

We have a lot to thank Cotter for as he's laid excellent foundations that I hope that Toony can build on. He has to take credit too. Cotter shaped them at Scotland but Toony made them at Glasgow.

It'll be interesting to see what squad Gatland picks in April for the Lions tour after a few curveballs throughout the tournament.

Scotland 5th in the rankings so in Pot 2 for the WC draw in May. That means we can't draw SA, Wales or France which is very handy. Though from Pot 1 we could draw NZ, Oz, England or Ireland. In Pot 3 we could draw Argentina, Italy, Georgia or Japan. What are your thoughts on that? Anyone with any idea who we could possibly face from Pots 4 and 5?

I agree with a lot of that. 

Cotter did it at Scotland but Lineen and Townsend drove professionalism on at Glasgow a notch. 

Can't see many Scots in a Lions XV. Hogg maybe, Maitland has a shot as does Johnny Gray, but Gatland will pick others. I think Nel would have gone but for injury. 

As for the pots- not sure but think it would if they qualify would be Pot 4 - Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Romania and Pot 5 - USA, Namibia, Canada,+1 other 

[Savage Henry]

I agree with a lot of that. 
Cotter did it at Scotland but Lineen and Townsend drove professionalism on at Glasgow a notch. 
Can't see many Scots in a Lions XV. Hogg maybe, Maitland has a shot as does Johnny Gray, but Gatland will pick others. I think Nel would have gone but for injury. 
As for the pots- not sure but think it would if they qualify would be Pot 4 - Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Romania and Pot 5 - USA, Namibia, Canada,+1 other 

Ireland, Japan, Romania and Namibia please.

[dogmc]

I like cotter as a guy but he's had the best squad of players that we've had for 25 years and couldn't get higher than 4th (same place women finished in their first season with a proper coaching system in place). Rwc was decent but we had a piss easy draw. We still struggled v Samoa and in 1st half's v usa n Japan. Most of our improvement has cone through the players improving at club level. One win each v Ireland Wales france n none against England sa nz or Aus isn't really that stellar. Previous coaches with worse players have managed wins v England sa n Aus. I think ultimately he's had a pretty easy ride from the media pundits n fans. Williams or hadden would have been crucified for conceding 61 points in a 6n match with what were pretty poor players. To do it with guys we currently have is poor. Sounds like im really down on vern but im not like i said i think hes a good guy but he hasnt gotten the results that the players are potentially capable of. I defo think it's time to get townsend in and let guys such as ford n laidlaw concentrate on club rugby. We are capable of doing something special with this group from next seasons 6n through to next rwc. Being selfish I hope we have very few scots in lions squad. A battering under gatland will be of much less benefit compared to a tour under toony. If it had been schmidt or Eddie Jones taking lions it would be different but gatland is horribly predictable.

[ajwffc]

The draw is the 10th of  May and if it the same as last time the pots should be 

Pot 1 New Zealand, England, Australia, Ireland

pot 2 Scotland, France, South Africa, Wales

pot 3 Argentina, Japan, Georgia, Italy

pot 4 Americas 1, Europe1, Oceania 1, Africa 1(was Asia 1 but Asia don't have a direct place )

pot 5 Americas 2, Oceania 2, Repechage 1, Repechage 2

With 

Americas 1 will be the winner of a 2 leg game between Canada and USA in the end of ~June beginning of July 

Americas 2 will be the winner of a 2 leg game between loser of  Canada and USA v winner of 2017 CONSUR Rugby Championship "A" (Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay) in 2018 

Americas 3 Runner up of game between loser of  Canada and USA v winner of 2017 CONSUR Rugby Championship "A" (Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay) in 2018 

Oceania 1,2,3 based on combined table of 2016/2017 World Rugby Pacific Nations Cup (Fiji,Samoa,Tonga)

Oceania 4 winner of the 2017 Oceania Rugby Cup

Africa 1 winner of Division 1A in the 2018 Africa Cup

Africa 2 loser of Division 1A v winner of Divison 1B in the 2018 Africa Cup

Asia 1 winner of 2018 Asia Rugby Championship(Runner up if Japan win it)

Europe 1 top team of combined  2017/2018 Rugby Europe Championship

Europe 2 runner up  team of combined  2017/2018 Rugby Europe Championship v winner of Portugal v winner of Rugby Europe Conference 2 v Rugby Europe Conference 1

Repechage 1  winner of Europe 2 v Oceania 3 in a 2 leg game in June 2018 

Repechage 2 winner of Asia 1 v Oceania 4 in a 2 leg game in 2018, runner up of Europe 2 v Oceania 3, Americas 3 and Africa 2 will enter a round robin tournament with each team playing each other once at a neutral venue. 

[honestly united]

As long as we avoid NZ and Argentina, I would be confident of getting out the group against anyone else. We always seem to do well against Aus, granted we have lost the last 2 but have been close games, and we won the 2 before that, we have just beaten Ireland, and we are due a win against England.

Im hoping we get some new teams at the RWC, but cant see it being much different. 12 out 20 we already know, of the other 8

2 out of Fiji, Samoa & Tonga (in that order I would think) with 3rd place heading to the repechage. This was one of the worst acts of protectionism ever, lets guarantee all 3 PI's a place (whoever doesn't qualify direct will win repechage) and took a place of Asia 1. Granted Asia 1 wont be that great, but why take the tournament to a new continent, but only have the hosts playing in it? And why the closed shop of those 3 playing themselves to qualify, why not include the other oceania teams?

2 out of USA, Canada & Uruguay with the 3rd place heading to the repechage. Uruguay will win CONSUR, with Brazil 2nd (could do with America's 4 as Brazil have beaten both US & Canada in the last to America's 6 nations). I wouldn't be surprised if Uruguay beat Canada, as Canada have been dreadful the last year and are going backwards quickly and Uruguay beat them this year.

Europe 1 will more than likely be Romania or Spain however I wouldn't rule out Russia or Germany just yet. Europe 2 is the winner of the play off of the  runner up of those 4, vs Portugal (as the RET winners), if Portugal get past the qualifiers from the lower tiers.

Africa 1 probably Namibia as they play there 3 hardest games at home in the qualifiers (6 teams in the 2017 Africa Gold Cup) but Kenya and Zimbabwe both have a chance as have been improving recently and Uganda showed up well in the 7's earlier this year also

Asia 1 will come down to either Hong Kong or South Korea 

So the pots will probably be 

pot 4 USA (Americas 1), Romania (Europe1), Fiji (Oceania 1), Namibia (Africa 1)

pot 5 Canada (Americas 2), Samoa (Oceania 2), Tonga (Repechage 1 (Tonga vs Russia)), Uruguay (Repechage 2, Hong Kong vs Cook Islands, plus Uruguay, Kenya and Russia)

All very predictable, and you can argue you always want the strongest teams, but your looking at having the same teams qualify as last time, and no new teams except for potentially Hong Kong, Cook Islands and Kenya for the last Repechage position.