Rugby Union

[ajwffc]

Watched the England game back. Farrell got away with another shoulder charge, in a position that would have meant a penalty try & yellow card. Peyper didn't go to the TMO, and nor the TMO flag it up.
Australia went back to their recent pish after that.
https://twitter.com/RugbyLAD7/status/1066357134873497600

According to a large number of England fans there was nothing wrong with the tackle. With the only reason it is getting brought up I'd everyone is sacred of them winning the Six Nations and the World Cup

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

16 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Not the best game, but it's the type of game we tend to lose, so delighted we saw it out against really tough, dogged opposition. It will be good for us going forward. On the Laidlaw/Horne point, with the game that tight, we needed Greig on the pitch to give an element of control. As much as I'd love to see Horne on the pitch, that wasn't the game for him.

Farrell really lucky again in the England game, Peyper suggesting that the Aussie ball carrier had dropped his shoulder as well was utter nonsense. He's allowed to, the tackler is not. Australia were shite though, but England will no doubt think they are world beaters again off the back of it.

Wales are getting away with fucking murder again against SA.

ETA: even the one-eyed Jonathan Davies has just mentioned he thinks Wales are getting the best of the ref.

I'm more encouraged by the All Blacks game than yesterday. We were fantastic in the first half against NZ and really should have won the game.

Yesterday was decent, but Australia were bloody awful. And yes, it was a clear penalty try/yellow card for Farrell. No idea what the ref was thinking.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Carl Cort's Hamstring

[Detournement]

The AIs feel like a bit of a damp squib for us. The injuries to Scott, Bradbury and Thompson meant we didn't really get the chance to improve key areas and it feels like we are still building when we should be refining.

 

[GordonS]

17 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

17 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

Pretty poor game today. Argentina probably would have won if they had taken their kicks.
£5 for a bottle of tennants though.

If Argentina had scored the 3 kicks they missed and Scotland had scored the two kicks they missed. Scotland would have won. Unsure of your kicking point. Too much Tom English perhaps?

IIRC Argentina missed 4 kicks, and 3 of them were very straightforward. They missed kicks that shouldn't be missed at any level of professional rugby. Scotland's misses were much tougher, there's no equivalence between them. We were very lucky and the fact that we won shouldn't paper over the cracks. 

[John Lambies Doos]

IIRC Argentina missed 4 kicks, and 3 of them were very straightforward. They missed kicks that shouldn't be missed at any level of professional rugby. Scotland's misses were much tougher, there's no equivalence between them. We were very lucky and the fact that we won shouldn't paper over the cracks. 

Only one of Sanchez kicks was a gimmie. Laidlaws last kick was a gimmie too but he just didn't have the length. It was a good win, let's just be happy. We absolutely toasted Fiji and look what they did last night. It was an okish November, could have been much better.

[honestly united]

I think the problem with the AI's is that it was more about trying out players  combinations rather than the results, although obviously the wins are important. I dont think we saw a full strength team in any of the games (SA was the closest we got to that). I think though we are in a good place going into the 6N, now that Strauss is back in the fold, would have been good to get Thompson involved though. We now have geniune competition for every position, and apart from at 10, where Russell is head and shoulders above Hastings, and there is no one else to bring in (Horne, Jackson and Weir are quite a drop in standard). For every other position even with a lot of injuries you wouldn't notice too much of a drop as the replacements are all of a decent standard. We've got a pool now of close to 50 players at least that are all international class players, which is not something we have had in my lieftime

[afca32]

Loosehead behind Dell is a concern but I think by the the World Cup Hastings will be a good second choice. Sanchez is a quality 10 so if he is missing kicks it’s not like we’re getting away with some shitty kicker missing, all good kickers have days like that and it could easily happen to Sexton (he had a shocking day off the ground v Wales during the six nations) at the World Cup which gives us a win. It doesn’t make you lucky if the opposition miss kicks.

Edited November 25, 2018 by afca32

[GAD]

We are being talked about in a very similar way to how Wales were at the end if the last AIs. Just like then, I don't think we are anywhere near as bad as we are being made out to be. It might not do us too much harm to be back under the radar and written off just now to be honest. I don't think at any point this series did we put out our best team, even discounting injuries, and it showed.

I also think we clearly used the Wales game as a vehicle to test out a pick and go forward dominated game. I'm not saying we lost on purpose, but the patterns we played were very un-townsend like, same in the first half against Fiji. I think there is more in the tank and we might get a few surprises come the 6 nations and world cup.

Edited November 25, 2018 by GAD

[come on shire]

Watching Glasgow on Fri night was like poetry. They had a similar team to us regarding absentees but they just couldn't live with us. We'll need to be better for the Scarlets game but just a week on from the autumn tests they'll be resting a few players I think (I hope). After all, the Welsh backline is basically Scarlets.

Scotland weren't great but we got the job done in poor weather vs a team who loves an arm wrestle. Our defence was excellent imo. The Pumas are on a losing streak but still beat SA at home then Oz away at the end of summer. Barring 2, all of the Pumas squad play for the Jaguares Super Rugby team so they'll know each other inside out.

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by come on shire

[same_ol_g35]

There's a lot of chat online that Huw Jones is indeed staying at Glasgow after they tabled an improved contract. 

 

[Mark Connolly]

Edinburgh have started really poorly at the Dragons.

[Mark Connolly]

Stuart Berry is absolutely fucking at it again.

[GAD]

37 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

Stuart Berry is absolutely fucking at it again.

That disallowed try was amazing.

[Mark Connolly]

4 minutes ago, GAD said:

That disallowed try was amazing.

Him seeing things that aren't there, and Eddie Butler commentating on 30 players who aren't actually on the pitch has made it quite an interesting game.

[GordonS]

10 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

10 hours ago, GordonS said:

IIRC Argentina missed 4 kicks, and 3 of them were very straightforward. They missed kicks that shouldn't be missed at any level of professional rugby. Scotland's misses were much tougher, there's no equivalence between them. We were very lucky and the fact that we won shouldn't paper over the cracks. 

Only one of Sanchez kicks was a gimmie. Laidlaws last kick was a gimmie too but he just didn't have the length. It was a good win, let's just be happy. We absolutely toasted Fiji and look what they did last night. It was an okish November, could have been much better.

Watch https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bssg0q/rugby-union-201819-12-scotland-v-argentina

39:32 Sanchez misses from straight in front of the posts, 30m out. Peter Wright says "You'd put your mortgage on Sanchez kicking that. Argentina, a nation of soccer players, natural kickers, there's no rationale as to why he would miss that kick."

52:27 Boffelli misses from 45m, fairly straight. No gimme, but most kicks from there go over in international rugby.

1:37:59 Sanchez misses from 45m, almost straight, again no gimme, but most of those go over, especially from him.

2:00:59 Sanchez misses from 35m, straight. This is bread-and-butter territory in professional rugby.

At least two of those kicks absolutely should have gone over. Argentina lost that match more than Scotland won it, so I can't be happy. The performance, especially in the first half, was easily the worst at home in 3.5 years. This is the last end-year international before the World Cup and we're the least settled of any of rugby's big 8 except for France. 

9 hours ago, afca32 said:

Loosehead behind Dell is a concern but I think by the the World Cup Hastings will be a good second choice. Sanchez is a quality 10 so if he is missing kicks it’s not like we’re getting away with some shitty kicker missing, all good kickers have days like that and it could easily happen to Sexton (he had a shocking day off the ground v Wales during the six nations) at the World Cup which gives us a win. It doesn’t make you lucky if the opposition miss kicks.

It is luck. It's one of the few things in sport that really does come down to pure luck. Once you've given the penalty away in a kickable location, you're relying on luck for it not to go over. We got lucky that a good kicker had a bad day - otherwise, we lose that game. One win from four in the autumn would have been a pretty disappointing return.

[honestly united]

8 hours ago, GordonS said:

Watch https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bssg0q/rugby-union-201819-12-scotland-v-argentina

39:32 Sanchez misses from straight in front of the posts, 30m out. Peter Wright says "You'd put your mortgage on Sanchez kicking that. Argentina, a nation of soccer players, natural kickers, there's no rationale as to why he would miss that kick."

52:27 Boffelli misses from 45m, fairly straight. No gimme, but most kicks from there go over in international rugby.

1:37:59 Sanchez misses from 45m, almost straight, again no gimme, but most of those go over, especially from him.

2:00:59 Sanchez misses from 35m, straight. This is bread-and-butter territory in professional rugby.

At least two of those kicks absolutely should have gone over. Argentina lost that match more than Scotland won it, so I can't be happy. The performance, especially in the first half, was easily the worst at home in 3.5 years. This is the last end-year international before the World Cup and we're the least settled of any of rugby's big 8 except for France. 

It is luck. It's one of the few things in sport that really does come down to pure luck. Once you've given the penalty away in a kickable location, you're relying on luck for it not to go over. We got lucky that a good kicker had a bad day - otherwise, we lose that game. One win from four in the autumn would have been a pretty disappointing return.

I dont think we are that unsettled, I think a first 15 picks itself, and everyone knows how we want to play. What Toonie has been doing during the autumn internationals is giving the back ups plenty of game time and trying new formations. Ritchie, Skinner and Hastings have come in a cemented a place in the squad, Strauss is back in the fold. I thought Alex Allan put in a decent shift when called on up front, after some good performances for Glasgow. 

I would say know our best team is 

Dell

Brown / McInally

Nell

Gray

Skinner

Watson

Barclay

Strauss / Wilson

Laidlaw / Horne

Russell

Seymour

Dunbar

Jones

Maitland

Hogg

Toss up at hooker, scrum half depends on opposition and no. 8 I still dont think is nailed down, plus we have plenty on the bench.

[GordonS]

34 minutes ago, honestly united said:

I dont think we are that unsettled, I think a first 15 picks itself, and everyone knows how we want to play. What Toonie has been doing during the autumn internationals is giving the back ups plenty of game time and trying new formations. Ritchie, Skinner and Hastings have come in a cemented a place in the squad, Strauss is back in the fold. I thought Alex Allan put in a decent shift when called on up front, after some good performances for Glasgow. 

I would say know our best team is 

Dell

Brown / McInally

Nell

Gray

Skinner

Watson

Barclay

Strauss / Wilson

Laidlaw / Horne

Russell

Seymour

Dunbar

Jones

Maitland

Hogg

Toss up at hooker, scrum half depends on opposition and no. 8 I still dont think is nailed down, plus we have plenty on the bench.

You've got a guy at lock who made his debut a little over three weeks ago, and a back row with a guy who sat out the past year, and without Ritchie, who got a lot of game time this autumn, Bradbury, the delayed Blade Thomson and the coming Fagerson. I think you're right in that the first three are broadly settled (though Strauss did himself no favours on Saturday and I'm sure Thomson will get his chance), but I'm not sure the blend is actually settled. It was working in the spring though, so maybe I'm worrying too much. 

I'm not sure Dunbar is first pick at 12, Townsend seems to prefer Peter Horne. Horne's got great skills, but in a back line short of physicality he seems to take a beating. By the time February comes around would we rule out the on-form choices at 12 being Bennett, Taylor, Scott and Harris?

In any case, the bigger uncertainty across the back is, how do we actually attack? Before this autumn we were all about building a few phases, drawing in defenders, getting quick ruck ball and then spinning it wide to guys running good lines. How many times did we do that against Wales, South Africa or Argentina? Our ruck was poor, we couldn't take care of our own ball and we got slowed down. Laidlaw has been back to the kind of play that saw him behind Ali Price in the pecking order for a while - a couple of beats too slow at the base of every ruck. By mixing up forwards and backs in the attack line we regularly had isolated players getting tackled and turned over. Everyone else is using pods of three at the ruck - one down, one to hit their first guy and one to get over the ball. I'm not saying we need to do the same, but we need to do something. All SA and Argentina had to do against us was take care of the basics and wait for us to cough up. We were going wide too quickly because we were getting hurt up front and too often it was too slow, static and obvious, leading to poor kicks.

The other problem is who comes off the bench at 9 and 10. Price looks to have been passed by George Horne, but he didn't show anything in the past few weeks. And Hastings... that didn't go well. He's going to have to learn fast.

I think the refereeing of the ruck is really harming us. Opponents get to go right over the ball, not support their weight, put hands on the ground and all they have to do is wait for the shout of "away red/ hands off green/ no blue!" before pulling away. By then the damage is done, they've added over a second to the ruck and that's all it takes. Nigel Owens showed how referees think on this in the Calcutta Cup match last season, when he didn't call advantage against England, but pulled them back for the penalty only after they'd intercepted and were about to score a try from the halfway line. You could hear him explain "the damage was done." Well, the damage is done at nearly every bloody ruck!

We're lucky to have two hookers that basically do the same job at the same level, they don't often last a full match in international rugby any more. Same at tight head, where we missed Zander.

Was there progress this autumn compared to last autumn? England, Wales and Ireland won 5 matches between them against the southern hemisphere's big three, and England were a whisker from beating NZ. I just feel that we've stalled a bit, all the old problems are there and now we have some new ones.

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

You've got a guy at lock who made his debut a little over three weeks ago, and a back row with a guy who sat out the past year, and without Ritchie, who got a lot of game time this autumn, Bradbury, the delayed Blade Thomson and the coming Fagerson. I think you're right in that the first three are broadly settled (though Strauss did himself no favours on Saturday and I'm sure Thomson will get his chance), but I'm not sure the blend is actually settled. It was working in the spring though, so maybe I'm worrying too much. 

I'm not sure Dunbar is first pick at 12, Townsend seems to prefer Peter Horne. Horne's got great skills, but in a back line short of physicality he seems to take a beating. By the time February comes around would we rule out the on-form choices at 12 being Bennett, Taylor, Scott and Harris?

In any case, the bigger uncertainty across the back is, how do we actually attack? Before this autumn we were all about building a few phases, drawing in defenders, getting quick ruck ball and then spinning it wide to guys running good lines. How many times did we do that against Wales, South Africa or Argentina? Our ruck was poor, we couldn't take care of our own ball and we got slowed down. Laidlaw has been back to the kind of play that saw him behind Ali Price in the pecking order for a while - a couple of beats too slow at the base of every ruck. By mixing up forwards and backs in the attack line we regularly had isolated players getting tackled and turned over. Everyone else is using pods of three at the ruck - one down, one to hit their first guy and one to get over the ball. I'm not saying we need to do the same, but we need to do something. All SA and Argentina had to do against us was take care of the basics and wait for us to cough up. We were going wide too quickly because we were getting hurt up front and too often it was too slow, static and obvious, leading to poor kicks.

The other problem is who comes off the bench at 9 and 10. Price looks to have been passed by George Horne, but he didn't show anything in the past few weeks. And Hastings... that didn't go well. He's going to have to learn fast.

I think the refereeing of the ruck is really harming us. Opponents get to go right over the ball, not support their weight, put hands on the ground and all they have to do is wait for the shout of "away red/ hands off green/ no blue!" before pulling away. By then the damage is done, they've added over a second to the ruck and that's all it takes. Nigel Owens showed how referees think on this in the Calcutta Cup match last season, when he didn't call advantage against England, but pulled them back for the penalty only after they'd intercepted and were about to score a try from the halfway line. You could hear him explain "the damage was done." Well, the damage is done at nearly every bloody ruck!

We're lucky to have two hookers that basically do the same job at the same level, they don't often last a full match in international rugby any more. Same at tight head, where we missed Zander.

Was there progress this autumn compared to last autumn? England, Wales and Ireland won 5 matches between them against the southern hemisphere's big three, and England were a whisker from beating NZ. I just feel that we've stalled a bit, all the old problems are there and now we have some new ones.

Have you been drinking with JLD?

I'm off to slit my wrists after reading that.

[Jaggy Snake]

I agree we never really played our first choice team so wouldn’t get too worried at this stage. I also agree with Gordon’s point though about us not taking care of the ball at rucks. It was noticeable through all four games.

In terms of selection, the only real concern for me is the back row where, apart from Hamish Watson, no one has really cemented their place. Jamie Ritchie’s performances varied from anonymous to excellent over the last couple of weeks, and he needs to guarantee himself as a first choice for Edinburgh before anything else. It remains to be seen if and how Barclay recovers.

Number 8 is an issue but we were just unlucky Blade Thomson got injured just before the internationals. I personally have never really liked Ryan Wilson, not helped by his tendency to get involved in scuffles, but he probably is first choice just now. Strauss has always been a popular player but he was awful in his penultimate year at Glasgow, and although he improved in his final year, he never reached the same heights again. Hopefully Matt Fagerson will continue to improve over the next year.

Pete Horne has his uses but Dunbar absolutely is first choice 12 at Glasgow and Scotland.

I wouldn’t judge Hastings on Saturday’s performance at all. He’s barely played with Laidlaw and had Finn in an unconventional position beside him. That was another reason why I didn’t agree with Laidlaw playing the whole game. George Horne & Hastings know each other’s games, and Horne could have actually helped Hastings play better. Add in the weather and Argentina always being a tough side to play against and it wasn't an easy game for someone still inexperienced at that level.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Jaggy Snake

[Savage Henry]

I would say at this point the Hastings/Russell combo didn't really look like a viable option for the 6 Nations.

The two unknowns are Sam Johnson and Blade Thomson.  They sound like a pair of Tintin characters, but Thomson could quite easily see Strauss head back to the wilderness (I still don't understand his relationship with Townsend).  Johnson has come over as a project player and seems to be very highly rated by Dave Rennie.   I'm not a Horne guy at all, but he has a decent scoring record, and whenever I think of centres I always go back to De Rollo, Henderson and De Luca to get a healthy dose of reality.

Barclay's a big miss in the back row, it's fair to say.  

The good news is the back line is as dynamic as I can remember Scotland having, especially with Maitland coming on to some real form, and I think the hookers are both excellent, modern players who can actually hook the ball.  McInally is my pick, but I'm okay with Brown.  There seem to be about half a dozen second rows who are all solid.  Sam Skinner reminded me of the hulking brutes that made up the English second row in the 1990s.

I actually worry that the team has stalled a bit, but the first choice XV should be able to win at least three games in the 6N. 

And then of course there are the inevitable injuries which will alter the 6N squad into the World Cup squad.