Rugby Union

[ajwffc]

refs for the quarters

[John Lambies Doos]

I'm loving the way we are the villians instead of the cuddly toy...
Get world rugby and fat Bill Beaumont in the sea

[honestly united]

To be fair in the eyes of Tier 2 fans we have been the villians for years.

And to be fair the fact we are in the 6N's every year means we pocket loads of cash, which we have used to buy in imports from NZ / SA / Aus is the only reason we have stayed ahead of Fiji / Samoa / Tonga etc in the 90's. If they had the same income as us they could afford to have all their best players playing in all their internationals (rather than staying at their clubs in France - or retiring from internationals early), or the likes of Georgia / Romania / Spain having the money to have high level pro teams in the Pro14 (or similar) would have them above us also. Our continued playing top Tier nations helps keep us ahead of the Tier 2's, as did our recent voting down of any changes to the 6N's, and voting against the Nations league confirmed we are definetly in the bad guys camp.

More reasons to be worried in that Japan are starting a new pro league (figures i have seen would make all 12 clubs the richest in world rugby) from 2021 and also there is a new South American pro league (clubs from Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil and Chile form the start) copying the MLR set up we could soon be further behind the big guns than we are alrady

 

[Savage Henry]

To be fair in the eyes of Tier 2 fans we have been the villians for years.
And to be fair the fact we are in the 6N's every year means we pocket loads of cash, which we have used to buy in imports from NZ / SA / Aus is the only reason we have stayed ahead of Fiji / Samoa / Tonga etc in the 90's. If they had the same income as us they could afford to have all their best players playing in all their internationals (rather than staying at their clubs in France - or retiring from internationals early), or the likes of Georgia / Romania / Spain having the money to have high level pro teams in the Pro14 (or similar) would have them above us also. Our continued playing top Tier nations helps keep us ahead of the Tier 2's, as did our recent voting down of any changes to the 6N's, and voting against the Nations league confirmed we are definetly in the bad guys camp.
More reasons to be worried in that Japan are starting a new pro league (figures i have seen would make all 12 clubs the richest in world rugby) from 2021 and also there is a new South American pro league (clubs from Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil and Chile form the start) copying the MLR set up we could soon be further behind the big guns than we are alrady
 

If they were creating the tiers tomorrow, Scotland would be tier two.

[GAD]

3 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

 

If they were creating the tiers tomorrow, Scotland would be tier two.

 

So would Italy and Argentina, and they still wouldn't be letting in anyone else.

[peasy23]

we seemed to have pissed off World Rugby https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50052435

 

 

STATEMENT

 

SCOTTISH RUGBY STATEMENT

 

16 OCTOBER 2019

 

Scottish Rugby statement...

 

A Scottish Rugby spokesperson, said: “Scottish Rugby once again expresses its sincere condolences to the people of Japan and all those affected by Typhoon Hagibis which struck last weekend.

"We have been able to convey our best wishes directly to the Mayor of Yokohama and the Chairman of the Japanese Rugby Union. We stand with the great people of Japan.

“Following receipt of correspondence yesterday from World Rugby, Scottish Rugby confirms that it has received a notice of complaint from Rugby World Cup Ltd. Scottish Rugby is querying whether the matter is an appropriate one for the bringing of Misconduct charges.

"If Misconduct proceedings are to proceed, Scottish Rugby looks forward to receiving a fair hearing in this matter. No further comment would be appropriate at this time."

 

 

 

[peasy23]

Saw another story from the head of NZ rugby putting the blame on Fiji, Samoa and Tonga all going out firmly at the door of the northern hemisphere, and specifically the 4 home rfu's. Apparently we are all to blame because we won't let the islanders play for their home countries after the Aussies and Kiwis have capped them then binned them once a better option comes along.

 

Heard Ben Ryan getting interviewed on 5live a couple of weeks ago, he coached Fiji's 7s to Olympic gold. As he said, it is a complicated issue. The biggest problem is the lack of professional leagues on the islands, players who look half decent get tempted away to play in leagues in Aus and NZ, but on condition that they remain available to play for their new homeland, which means not playing for their island. Those players then get used to sending money back to support their family and know if they were to play for their home island they would almost certainly be bagged by theur club.

 

It hasn't helped that money from world rugby that has gone to the islands doesn't ever seem to reach where it should. He also cited the example of England v NZ, with the Kiwis taking home £2m of the Matchday revenues, whereas Fiji got their expenses paid plus a sum of £50k when they played in front of a Twickenham full house with similar takings.

 

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Saw another story from the head of NZ rugby putting the blame on Fiji, Samoa and Tonga all going out firmly at the door of the northern hemisphere, and specifically the 4 home rfu's. Apparently we are all to blame because we won't let the islanders play for their home countries after the Aussies and Kiwis have capped them then binned them once a better option comes along.

Or in other words

If we all agree to treat that Fiji as not a real nation but just a minor league farm team for it’s neighbours then they could field stronger teams.

I can see the logic but I’m not convinced

[peasy23]

Or in other words

If we all agree to treat that Fiji as not a real nation but just a minor league farm team for it’s neighbours then they could field stronger teams.

I can see the logic but I’m not convinced

Pretty much, I was editing my post when you replied, added a bit more detail.

[honestly united]

Thats NZ that have still to send a full international team to play any of the Pacific Islanders at home as there is no money in it for them?

If Aus / NZ would actually go and play games there, or let a PI team in Super Rugby then that would go a lot further to helping them, than letting some 30 somethings that are deemed surplas to requirements for NZ or Aus to turn out for them. IN fact the Islanders are more likely to not play and try their hand at a bigger nation first if they know they can go back if it doesn't work out

[Cheeko Green]

Thats NZ that have still to send a full international team to play any of the Pacific Islanders at home as there is no money in it for them?

The All Blacks played in Samoa in 2015 with a full team. I think I read that Samoa actually lost money on that game so I’m not sure games in the islands are that attractive for either side.

A super rugby team would help but even the top super rugby teams can’t compete with the money on offer in Europe. Maybe if the criteria to qualify for another nation was a bit tighter it might stop so many switching to the big nations?

[ajwffc]

The All Blacks played in Samoa in 2015 with a full team. I think I read that Samoa actually lost money on that game so I’m not sure games in the islands are that attractive for either side.

A super rugby team would help but even the top super rugby teams can’t compete with the money on offer in Europe. Maybe if the criteria to qualify for another nation was a bit tighter it might stop so many switching to the big nations?

They lost about 1.5 million New Zealand dollars form the articles I could find

[John Lambies Doos]

The All Blacks played in Samoa in 2015 with a full team. I think I read that Samoa actually lost money on that game so I’m not sure games in the islands are that attractive for either side.

A super rugby team would help but even the top super rugby teams can’t compete with the money on offer in Europe. Maybe if the criteria to qualify for another nation was a bit tighter it might stop so many switching to the big nations?

How is it possible that Samoa lost money from that game, genuine question

[honestly united]

55 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

4 hours ago, Cheeko Green said:

The All Blacks played in Samoa in 2015 with a full team. I think I read that Samoa actually lost money on that game so I’m not sure games in the islands are that attractive for either side.

A super rugby team would help but even the top super rugby teams can’t compete with the money on offer in Europe. Maybe if the criteria to qualify for another nation was a bit tighter it might stop so many switching to the big nations?

How is it possible that Samoa lost money from that game, genuine question

Even if it sold out I would imagine the ticket prices would be around the £5 / 10 mark to be afordable to the majority of the population of Samoa, so they would have taken approx £250k, but have to pay for NZ to travel over (and probably a few for them to play), training facilities, hotels etc, flying players over from Europe etc.

Its like Georgia (who have a similar GDP to the pacific nations) fill the main stadium in Tblisi but only charge €5/10 for each game.

Edit to add

Also having just checked NZ have played Samoa 7 times - Scotland (11), Wales (10) and England (8) have all played them more times

Game was played on a wednesday, only 8000 fans apparenetly.

Edited October 17, 2019 by honestly united

[Eednud]

Australia have played Fiji 3 times in Fiji, the most recent being 1984.

[John Lambies Doos]

Out of all the teams left in WC the only teams I would like seeing winning are Japan and France. Unfortunately they have as much chance as Boris Johnson getting his Brexit plan through on Saturday.

What teams would you be happy winning the world cup?

What teams do you definitely not want winning the world cup.?

[Mark Connolly]

Of what is left, I'd like to see them win in the following order:

1. Japan

2. France

3. SA

4. Oz

5. NZ

6. Ireland

7. Wales

8. England

NZ are only so low because they've won it the last 2 and it would be good for the game for someone else to win it. The bottom 3 are obvious and interchangeable.

[peasy23]

Even if it sold out I would imagine the ticket prices would be around the £5 / 10 mark to be afordable to the majority of the population of Samoa, so they would have taken approx £250k, but have to pay for NZ to travel over (and probably a few for them to play), training facilities, hotels etc, flying players over from Europe etc.
Its like Georgia (who have a similar GDP to the pacific nations) fill the main stadium in Tblisi but only charge €5/10 for each game.
Edit to add
Also having just checked NZ have played Samoa 7 times - Scotland (11), Wales (10) and England ( have all played them more times
Game was played on a wednesday, only 8000 fans apparenetly.

Exactly this, Ben Ryan said that in his interview the other week. Although a visit from a Tier 1 country is always welcome, it's not a money spinner because they can only charge a few quid for a ticket. Charge any more then the place would be empty. Unless the visiting team is willing to pay for the trip themselves then they probably do lose money.

[honestly united]

2 hours ago, peasy23 said:

4 hours ago, honestly united said:

Even if it sold out I would imagine the ticket prices would be around the £5 / 10 mark to be afordable to the majority of the population of Samoa, so they would have taken approx £250k, but have to pay for NZ to travel over (and probably a few for them to play), training facilities, hotels etc, flying players over from Europe etc.
Its like Georgia (who have a similar GDP to the pacific nations) fill the main stadium in Tblisi but only charge €5/10 for each game.
Edit to add
Also having just checked NZ have played Samoa 7 times - Scotland (11), Wales (10) and England ( have all played them more times
Game was played on a wednesday, only 8000 fans apparenetly.

Exactly this, Ben Ryan said that in his interview the other week. Although a visit from a Tier 1 country is always welcome, it's not a money spinner because they can only charge a few quid for a ticket. Charge any more then the place would be empty. Unless the visiting team is willing to pay for the trip themselves then they probably do lose money.

I think the only way to change it is to have

a) proper qualifiers for the world cup so more Tier 2 and Tier 3 get a chance of a game against one of the Tier 1 nations, and they wont be paying out huge sums they are now for friendlies as they have to go and play

b) Having a proper continental cup every 4 years between world cups. It would probably mean the end of the Lions but in this day and age its fairly meaningless (well for us anyway as about 2 token scots get picked each time!)

[topcat(The most tip top)]

 

1. France

I like France. They’ve been to three finals and lost all three. They’re long overdue. And it would annoy English Rugby Wankers

 

2. Japan

Even if they only make the semi’s it will lift some of the gloom surrounding our exit. English pundits would cheer them which is why they’re number two on this list.

 

3. NZ

I’m an eighth Kiwi which isn’t quite enough for me to be eligible. There are probably other reasons I never became an all black

 

4. Australia

A hard team to like but the thought of Israel Falau having to watch it on the telly puts them into the top half of the list

 

5 Ireland

Again it would make our group stage exit look a bit better if Ireland win the bloody thing.

 

6 South Africa

Dreadful people. Edinburgh pubs are unbearable when they’re at Murrayfield. Make pissed up Irishmen seem pleasant by comparison

 

7. Wales

Horrible nasty second rate Englishmen playing horribly dull Rugby. If they win the World Cup with it then the IRB need to change the laws to stop people following their example

 

8. England

Once was enough

 

 

All placing are provisional and subject to constant revision should circumstances change. For example if I get ill after eating dodgy Sushi or get off with Katherine Jenkins.