Rugby Union

[ajwffc]

try to italy 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

Worrying times for Scottish rugby. 

After an absolutely desperate decade, we improved under Cotter and the support fell back in love with the team again.  Townsend promised a new, exciting way to play rugby and we had young players coming through who bought into it.  Murrayfield has been sold out every game and the cash flowed into SRU coffers. 

The experience of the last year though suggests that Scotland under Townsend have hit the glass ceiling and are regressing. Our preparations for the world cup were obviously awful, the team are struggling to find a rythm, our set piece is struggling, we can't stop leaking tries and it looks like we've run out of ideas as to how to score them. 

On top of that, one of our world class players won't play for the team and the other has lost all confidence and is on a disastrous run of form after being stupidly appointed captain. 

The SRU won't do anything about Townsend I suspect until the point that people stop buying tickets for games and they get hit in the wallet. But how much longer can they allow us to remain rudderless both on and off the park ? 

 

[Gianfranco]

Italy conceded more penalties than Scotland.

[ajwffc]

big bad SRU

Quote

Scotland Women’s Six Nations match against England Women will now be played at BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh on Monday 10 February at 1.30pm.

Both Scottish Rugby, RFU and Six Nations agreed to a short turnaround for the fixture which was postponed from Scotstoun Stadium in Glasgow on Sunday lunchtime due to extreme weather conditions as a result of Storm Ciara.

Weather conditions in Edinburgh on Monday will not be as severe as Glasgow but still forecast as challenging so the game will not be open to the public or have tickets on sale.

Ticketholders will automatically receive a full refund by Friday 14 February removing any requirement to contact the Scottish Rugby ticket office.

BBC ALBA will broadcast the match in full on their channel at 9pm. Supporters can follow the game live in the online match centre at scottishrugby.org, including live action clips from BBC ALBA.

 

[lichtie23]

Italy will beat us

[peasy23]

Italy will beat us

I fear the same, but France are doing lots of France type things to help Italy stay in the game.

[ajwffc]

7 minutes ago, lichtie23 said:

Italy will beat us

the french are making them look good

[Gianfranco]

That was an outstanding try.

[Detournement]

France look good. The half backs are class.

Italy looked dangerous but I think we can beat them easily enough if we are accurate in the set piece and keep good discipline.

[Diamonds are Forever]

2 hours ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

Russell does not come out of that article well at all imo.

 

Neither of them do. At the time this happened I said that it was possible to think Russell had behaved poorly and that Townsend was hopeless, this has just confirmed this view. The article implies he knows he should have turned up for training, and it's obvious he was trying to force things to a head as in his eyes he wasn't being given enough respect. I think he's taken the huff hoping they come chasing, but they didn't.

On the other hand it does sound like this has been building up for a long time. International managers, more than any other, must do all they can to keep their better players onside. It's not so important at club level where you can bring new ones in, but if you are short of world class players it's crucial you create an environment where they feel respected. That doesn't mean giving them special treatment (as he rightly didn't do here), but does mean having man management skills to deal with them. Sounds like he is lacking in that regard.

[peasy23]

France look good. The half backs are class.
Italy looked dangerous but I think we can beat them easily enough if we are accurate in the set piece and keep good discipline.

I can see one obvious flaw in that plan based on the evidence of the first 2 games...

[John Lambies Doos]

Italy can beat us

[Savage Henry]

Italy can beat us

Likewise, Scotland could put 50 on them.

[flyingscot]

3 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

Likewise, Scotland could put 50 on them.

 

We could but it's unlikely. In Rome the most we've ever scored since they joined the tournament is 36 points. Our record in the last 10 years in Rome is 2 Italy wins by 4 and 7 points and the last 3 have been 3 Scottish wins by 1 point, 16 points (record amount) and 2 points. 

Let's be under no illusions. They'll give us a game. It will be close and we'll need to be on top form with few mistakes. They will be capable of beating us and if we give them momentum they could punish us. 

[peasy23]

We could but it's unlikely. In Rome the most we've ever scored since they joined the tournament is 36 points. Our record in the last 10 years in Rome is 2 Italy wins by 4 and 7 points and the last 3 have been 3 Scottish wins by 1 point, 16 points (record amount) and 2 points. 
Let's be under no illusions. They'll give us a game. It will be close and we'll need to be on top form with few mistakes. They will be capable of beating us and if we give them momentum they could punish us. 

Italy looked dangerous today when France went to sleep for a spell in the second half, especially when some of the French kicking was very slack. On the flip side France cut them open often enough to make you think that Scotland can make chances, but they will need to be on their A game for 80 minutes.

[Savage Henry]

Italy looked dangerous today when France went to sleep for a spell in the second half, especially when some of the French kicking was very slack. On the flip side France cut them open often enough to make you think that Scotland can make chances, but they will need to be on their A game for 80 minutes.

Italy looked like a team which is susceptible to a really crafty stand off who is creative enough to exploit the space behind the lines.

[honestly united]

Unless i've missed something we've been fairly woefull for the entire 20 years of the 6 nations. Having spent 6 years of Williams and Hadden where all we got to cheer was the odd Paterson or Parks penalty and stumbling past Italy to avoid wooden spoons. We went what seemed like years without scoring tries (with backs that would struggle to make a pass to a team mate), and against everyone except Italy keeping the score close was seen as an achievement.

We started under Cotter to see an improvement but over 3 years he only managed 3 wins in the 6 Nations, and also suffered a wooden spoon in the middle of his reign. Under Townsend we appeared to turn a corner, with 3 wins in his first season in charge, before an utter collapse against England, last year we seemed to regress as although attaking wise we looked good in spells defensively we looked weak. The world cup was poor, as we struggled as we didn't really seem to know how we wanted to play and there was a mixture of the quick tempo game, interspersed with rediculous kicking and generally looking directionless.

This year we appear to be a really solid team, and at least we dont look like getting humilated, which is nice for a change, however attacking wise were just not at the races compared to the last few years. Hopefully a good win againsts Italy will give us a bit of confidence for the last few games. France although topping the table so far are beatable, especially at Murrayfield, and having seen Ireland beating Wales by quite a distance I think we have a decent chance of beating them.

I think the suprising thing about the Finn situation is in terms of playing rugby, you would expect them to be on the same wave length as they both played  a similar style, and at Glasgow, and the start of his time for Scotland, it was as if Toony was building a team to suit how Russel played (obviosuly there was a whole set of backs that suited the style of play but having a stand off that can pull the strings is the starting point of the whole game plan). To hear they dont actaully speak is quite shocking, but is maybe just the way Toony is as a coach. I always got the impression that he was coaching more of a heads up play whats in front of you style, with the players given responsibility to make decisions rather than anything to rigid.

You do wonder if he is quite controlling and its the reason a number of the senior players who didn't quit after the world cup, were dropped (im thinking Wilson is quite outspoken) THe likes of Hardie and Dunbar  being pushed out makes you wonder if they too were querstioning of Toonies methods. Its interesting that the drink ban was seemingly the senior player leadership group that made the decison. WIth Russel and Maitland weren't there you wonder who it is. Im assuming Hogg, McInally, Gray but not sure who else is invloced in that.

[ajwffc]

We should go for Michael Cheika(for the entertainment factor but probably can't do a worst job that the we are getting at the moment) for next Scotland manager. Scott Robertson (Crusaders head coach) or Clark Laidlaw (New Zealand 7s head coach, Scottish and Roy Laidlaw (so cousin to Greig)) would be a better choice. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

9 hours ago, honestly united said:

Unless i've missed something we've been fairly woefull for the entire 20 years of the 6 nations. Having spent 6 years of Williams and Hadden where all we got to cheer was the odd Paterson or Parks penalty and stumbling past Italy to avoid wooden spoons. We went what seemed like years without scoring tries (with backs that would struggle to make a pass to a team mate), and against everyone except Italy keeping the score close was seen as an achievement.

We started under Cotter to see an improvement but over 3 years he only managed 3 wins in the 6 Nations, and also suffered a wooden spoon in the middle of his reign. Under Townsend we appeared to turn a corner, with 3 wins in his first season in charge, before an utter collapse against England, last year we seemed to regress as although attaking wise we looked good in spells defensively we looked weak. The world cup was poor, as we struggled as we didn't really seem to know how we wanted to play and there was a mixture of the quick tempo game, interspersed with rediculous kicking and generally looking directionless.

This year we appear to be a really solid team, and at least we dont look like getting humilated, which is nice for a change, however attacking wise were just not at the races compared to the last few years. Hopefully a good win againsts Italy will give us a bit of confidence for the last few games. France although topping the table so far are beatable, especially at Murrayfield, and having seen Ireland beating Wales by quite a distance I think we have a decent chance of beating them.

I think the suprising thing about the Finn situation is in terms of playing rugby, you would expect them to be on the same wave length as they both played  a similar style, and at Glasgow, and the start of his time for Scotland, it was as if Toony was building a team to suit how Russel played (obviosuly there was a whole set of backs that suited the style of play but having a stand off that can pull the strings is the starting point of the whole game plan). To hear they dont actaully speak is quite shocking, but is maybe just the way Toony is as a coach. I always got the impression that he was coaching more of a heads up play whats in front of you style, with the players given responsibility to make decisions rather than anything to rigid.

You do wonder if he is quite controlling and its the reason a number of the senior players who didn't quit after the world cup, were dropped (im thinking Wilson is quite outspoken) THe likes of Hardie and Dunbar  being pushed out makes you wonder if they too were querstioning of Toonies methods. Its interesting that the drink ban was seemingly the senior player leadership group that made the decison. WIth Russel and Maitland weren't there you wonder who it is. Im assuming Hogg, McInally, Gray but not sure who else is invloced in that.

I was stunned to see that Townsend has the best percentage win record of any Scotland coach since the beginning of the 70's  (with the exception of Ian McGeeghan at the end of the 80's) with something like 55% of matches being wins. 

I've tried to think back over the last 2 games in my head.  The conditions dictated everything on Saturday, and despite a litany of basic errors, we were never, ever going to beat England in a forward dominated arm-wrestle for a whole 80 minutes. 

I actually thought we were much, much better against Ireland than Wales were on Saturday, and were only a few moments of poor decision making away from a famous (and deserved) win. Or at least a draw.

We have a chance over the next 2 fixtures to at least show we can play rugby and win games.  Do that and go to Cardiff against a Wales team that has maybe just lost to England and has no chance of winning the Championship, and let's see what happens.

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Bob Mahelp

[jaggyness]

I was stunned to see that Townsend has the best percentage win record of any Scotland coach since the beginning of the 70's  (with the exception of Ian McGeeghan at the end of the 80's) with something like 55% of matches being wins. 
I've tried to think back over the last 2 games in my head.  The conditions dictated everything on Saturday, and despite a litany of basic errors, we were never, ever going to beat England in a forward dominated arm-wrestle for a whole 80 minutes. 
I actually thought we were much, much better against Ireland than Wales were on Saturday, and were only a few moments of poor decision making away from a famous (and deserved) win. Or at least a draw.
We have a chance over the next 2 fixtures to at least show we can play rugby and win games.  Do that and go to Cardiff against a Wales team that has maybe just lost to England and has no chance of winning the Championship, and let's see what happens.
 

Some of his win percentage can be attributed to the summer tours to North America and the likes of NZ and SA not seeing us as attractive enough opposition in the autumn and us filling up the schedule with games against Fiji and Tonga etc