Rugby Union

[flyingscot]

3 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

Likewise, Scotland could put 50 on them.

 

We could but it's unlikely. In Rome the most we've ever scored since they joined the tournament is 36 points. Our record in the last 10 years in Rome is 2 Italy wins by 4 and 7 points and the last 3 have been 3 Scottish wins by 1 point, 16 points (record amount) and 2 points. 

Let's be under no illusions. They'll give us a game. It will be close and we'll need to be on top form with few mistakes. They will be capable of beating us and if we give them momentum they could punish us. 

[peasy23]

We could but it's unlikely. In Rome the most we've ever scored since they joined the tournament is 36 points. Our record in the last 10 years in Rome is 2 Italy wins by 4 and 7 points and the last 3 have been 3 Scottish wins by 1 point, 16 points (record amount) and 2 points. 
Let's be under no illusions. They'll give us a game. It will be close and we'll need to be on top form with few mistakes. They will be capable of beating us and if we give them momentum they could punish us. 

Italy looked dangerous today when France went to sleep for a spell in the second half, especially when some of the French kicking was very slack. On the flip side France cut them open often enough to make you think that Scotland can make chances, but they will need to be on their A game for 80 minutes.

[Savage Henry]

Italy looked dangerous today when France went to sleep for a spell in the second half, especially when some of the French kicking was very slack. On the flip side France cut them open often enough to make you think that Scotland can make chances, but they will need to be on their A game for 80 minutes.

Italy looked like a team which is susceptible to a really crafty stand off who is creative enough to exploit the space behind the lines.

[honestly united]

Unless i've missed something we've been fairly woefull for the entire 20 years of the 6 nations. Having spent 6 years of Williams and Hadden where all we got to cheer was the odd Paterson or Parks penalty and stumbling past Italy to avoid wooden spoons. We went what seemed like years without scoring tries (with backs that would struggle to make a pass to a team mate), and against everyone except Italy keeping the score close was seen as an achievement.

We started under Cotter to see an improvement but over 3 years he only managed 3 wins in the 6 Nations, and also suffered a wooden spoon in the middle of his reign. Under Townsend we appeared to turn a corner, with 3 wins in his first season in charge, before an utter collapse against England, last year we seemed to regress as although attaking wise we looked good in spells defensively we looked weak. The world cup was poor, as we struggled as we didn't really seem to know how we wanted to play and there was a mixture of the quick tempo game, interspersed with rediculous kicking and generally looking directionless.

This year we appear to be a really solid team, and at least we dont look like getting humilated, which is nice for a change, however attacking wise were just not at the races compared to the last few years. Hopefully a good win againsts Italy will give us a bit of confidence for the last few games. France although topping the table so far are beatable, especially at Murrayfield, and having seen Ireland beating Wales by quite a distance I think we have a decent chance of beating them.

I think the suprising thing about the Finn situation is in terms of playing rugby, you would expect them to be on the same wave length as they both played  a similar style, and at Glasgow, and the start of his time for Scotland, it was as if Toony was building a team to suit how Russel played (obviosuly there was a whole set of backs that suited the style of play but having a stand off that can pull the strings is the starting point of the whole game plan). To hear they dont actaully speak is quite shocking, but is maybe just the way Toony is as a coach. I always got the impression that he was coaching more of a heads up play whats in front of you style, with the players given responsibility to make decisions rather than anything to rigid.

You do wonder if he is quite controlling and its the reason a number of the senior players who didn't quit after the world cup, were dropped (im thinking Wilson is quite outspoken) THe likes of Hardie and Dunbar  being pushed out makes you wonder if they too were querstioning of Toonies methods. Its interesting that the drink ban was seemingly the senior player leadership group that made the decison. WIth Russel and Maitland weren't there you wonder who it is. Im assuming Hogg, McInally, Gray but not sure who else is invloced in that.

[ajwffc]

We should go for Michael Cheika(for the entertainment factor but probably can't do a worst job that the we are getting at the moment) for next Scotland manager. Scott Robertson (Crusaders head coach) or Clark Laidlaw (New Zealand 7s head coach, Scottish and Roy Laidlaw (so cousin to Greig)) would be a better choice. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

9 hours ago, honestly united said:

Unless i've missed something we've been fairly woefull for the entire 20 years of the 6 nations. Having spent 6 years of Williams and Hadden where all we got to cheer was the odd Paterson or Parks penalty and stumbling past Italy to avoid wooden spoons. We went what seemed like years without scoring tries (with backs that would struggle to make a pass to a team mate), and against everyone except Italy keeping the score close was seen as an achievement.

We started under Cotter to see an improvement but over 3 years he only managed 3 wins in the 6 Nations, and also suffered a wooden spoon in the middle of his reign. Under Townsend we appeared to turn a corner, with 3 wins in his first season in charge, before an utter collapse against England, last year we seemed to regress as although attaking wise we looked good in spells defensively we looked weak. The world cup was poor, as we struggled as we didn't really seem to know how we wanted to play and there was a mixture of the quick tempo game, interspersed with rediculous kicking and generally looking directionless.

This year we appear to be a really solid team, and at least we dont look like getting humilated, which is nice for a change, however attacking wise were just not at the races compared to the last few years. Hopefully a good win againsts Italy will give us a bit of confidence for the last few games. France although topping the table so far are beatable, especially at Murrayfield, and having seen Ireland beating Wales by quite a distance I think we have a decent chance of beating them.

I think the suprising thing about the Finn situation is in terms of playing rugby, you would expect them to be on the same wave length as they both played  a similar style, and at Glasgow, and the start of his time for Scotland, it was as if Toony was building a team to suit how Russel played (obviosuly there was a whole set of backs that suited the style of play but having a stand off that can pull the strings is the starting point of the whole game plan). To hear they dont actaully speak is quite shocking, but is maybe just the way Toony is as a coach. I always got the impression that he was coaching more of a heads up play whats in front of you style, with the players given responsibility to make decisions rather than anything to rigid.

You do wonder if he is quite controlling and its the reason a number of the senior players who didn't quit after the world cup, were dropped (im thinking Wilson is quite outspoken) THe likes of Hardie and Dunbar  being pushed out makes you wonder if they too were querstioning of Toonies methods. Its interesting that the drink ban was seemingly the senior player leadership group that made the decison. WIth Russel and Maitland weren't there you wonder who it is. Im assuming Hogg, McInally, Gray but not sure who else is invloced in that.

I was stunned to see that Townsend has the best percentage win record of any Scotland coach since the beginning of the 70's  (with the exception of Ian McGeeghan at the end of the 80's) with something like 55% of matches being wins. 

I've tried to think back over the last 2 games in my head.  The conditions dictated everything on Saturday, and despite a litany of basic errors, we were never, ever going to beat England in a forward dominated arm-wrestle for a whole 80 minutes. 

I actually thought we were much, much better against Ireland than Wales were on Saturday, and were only a few moments of poor decision making away from a famous (and deserved) win. Or at least a draw.

We have a chance over the next 2 fixtures to at least show we can play rugby and win games.  Do that and go to Cardiff against a Wales team that has maybe just lost to England and has no chance of winning the Championship, and let's see what happens.

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Bob Mahelp

[jaggyness]

I was stunned to see that Townsend has the best percentage win record of any Scotland coach since the beginning of the 70's  (with the exception of Ian McGeeghan at the end of the 80's) with something like 55% of matches being wins. 
I've tried to think back over the last 2 games in my head.  The conditions dictated everything on Saturday, and despite a litany of basic errors, we were never, ever going to beat England in a forward dominated arm-wrestle for a whole 80 minutes. 
I actually thought we were much, much better against Ireland than Wales were on Saturday, and were only a few moments of poor decision making away from a famous (and deserved) win. Or at least a draw.
We have a chance over the next 2 fixtures to at least show we can play rugby and win games.  Do that and go to Cardiff against a Wales team that has maybe just lost to England and has no chance of winning the Championship, and let's see what happens.
 

Some of his win percentage can be attributed to the summer tours to North America and the likes of NZ and SA not seeing us as attractive enough opposition in the autumn and us filling up the schedule with games against Fiji and Tonga etc

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

58 minutes ago, jaggyness said:

2 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I was stunned to see that Townsend has the best percentage win record of any Scotland coach since the beginning of the 70's  (with the exception of Ian McGeeghan at the end of the 80's) with something like 55% of matches being wins. 
I've tried to think back over the last 2 games in my head.  The conditions dictated everything on Saturday, and despite a litany of basic errors, we were never, ever going to beat England in a forward dominated arm-wrestle for a whole 80 minutes. 
I actually thought we were much, much better against Ireland than Wales were on Saturday, and were only a few moments of poor decision making away from a famous (and deserved) win. Or at least a draw.
We have a chance over the next 2 fixtures to at least show we can play rugby and win games.  Do that and go to Cardiff against a Wales team that has maybe just lost to England and has no chance of winning the Championship, and let's see what happens.
 

Some of his win percentage can be attributed to the summer tours to North America and the likes of NZ and SA not seeing us as attractive enough opposition in the autumn and us filling up the schedule with games against Fiji and Tonga etc

True, but in the modern era no Scottish rugby coach has really been able to win games with any consistency. In the last 50 years it's rare for us to even win 2 games in a row, never mind Grand Slams or Championships.

The SRU will look at Townsend's record and determine that he's doing at least as well as anybody else. On top of that, Murrayfield sells out for every game, so why change ? 

Changes will only be made when the SRU are hit in the pocket.  Until that point, I would reckon Townsend is pretty safe in his job. 

 

[Savage Henry]

True, but in the modern era no Scottish rugby coach has really been able to win games with any consistency. In the last 50 years it's rare for us to even win 2 games in a row, never mind Grand Slams or Championships.
The SRU will look at Townsend's record and determine that he's doing at least as well as anybody else. On top of that, Murrayfield sells out for every game, so why change ? 
Changes will only be made when the SRU are hit in the pocket.  Until that point, I would reckon Townsend is pretty safe in his job. 
 

It’s only since Cotter that home games have consistently sold out. That guy made the team at least attempt to believe in itself. Some of the Williams/Hadden/Robinson home games had extra tickets issued to away fans.

[peasy23]

It’s only since Cotter that home games have consistently sold out. That guy made the team at least attempt to believe in itself. Some of the Williams/Hadden/Robinson home games had extra tickets issued to away fans.

I can remember they did some Groupon deals for home games pre Cotter, my in laws got 2 for 1 for an Italy match.

[ajwffc]

Jonny Gray has been ruled out of the remainder of Scotland's Six Nations campaign because of injury.

[peasy23]

Jonny Gray has been ruled out of the remainder of Scotland's Six Nations campaign because of injury.

Ouch. Another big loss.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

16 hours ago, honestly united said:

Unless i've missed something we've been fairly woefull for the entire 20 years of the 6 nations.

Although we were the worst performing team for the 9 decades of the five nations as well.

Much of the criticism of whoever happens to be Scotland's head coach at any given time is merited

But a lot of it is from people my age who saw two grand slams as adolescents and grew up thinking that was normal

 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by topcat(The most tip top)

[peasy23]

Although we were the worst performing team for the 9 decades of the five nations as well.
Much of the criticism of whoever happens to be Scotland's head coach at any given time is merited
But a lot of it is from people my age who saw two grand slams as adolescents and grew up thinking that was normal
 
 

Think that is definitely a big part of it, the two slams in 84 and 90 definitely made me think we were among the best in the world, and we were capable of beating all the other nations on a fairly regular basis. We seem to have struggled in the 20+ years since the game went professional. We have had spells where we have had a brilliant set of forwards, but mediocre backs, and vice versa. Biggest criticism of the last few years is that Scotland have rarely performed at a high level for a full 80 minutes.

Watched the women get their annual gubbing from England. Plenty of effort, but in terms of physicality I would imagine it would look pretty similar to the Warriors playing a full strength side against Allan Glens.

[GNU_Linux]

I don't follow rugby but how has the Super 6 thingy fared so far?

[flyingscot]

This is all getting rather undignified. 

[Detournement]

General platitudes there with no specifics.

Obviously getting it out so when the press question him he'll just say he made his statement and has nothing to add. 

Good media tactics. Hopefully his tactics for the  Italy game match up. 

[John Lambies Doos]

Would be interesting to hear Richie Gray's take on Townsend

[ddfg]

Or Duncan Weir's

Would be interesting to hear Richie Gray's take on Townsend

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

4 hours ago, flyingscot said:

This is all getting rather undignified. 

 

I think that we've missed the turn off for Undignified, next stop Embarrassment, with the final destination being fucked up shambles.