Rugby Union

[honestly united]

9 hours ago, come on shire said:

It's a blow to lose Hogg and Russell for the final game. Controversial opinion time but I'm not feeling Hogg's on the pedestal we put him on anymore but Russell's a loss.

Having said that we should still have the quality to get 5 points vs Italy at home.

I've just jinxed it, haven't I?

I think Kinghorn has been just as good as Hogg and I havent noticed a drop when Hoggs gone off so thats probably worrying for Hogg's form, remember he hadnt played for Exeter in a while before the 6 natiosn started.

What happens at 10 is the issue. I think I would rather give Healy a run, as Thomson and Hastings are both injured, but can see Kinghorn starting there

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

On 12/03/2023 at 18:10, John Lambies Doos said:

Our two substitute props were dreadful.  Re. The hooker,  Turner wasn't great but I'd stick with him. I'd have Cherry in the mix too. Brown is mince at this level

Yeah I think the front row is our only area where we don't have at least decent depth at this point. Turner and Ashman the hookers with Cherry the 3rd for me, but with Sutherland not up to speed we really struggle at both props. Nel was largely fine against England but I guess the argument is mobility/ability to last even as a replacement. He's still probably recovering from that shift now. 

On the injuries, with the way things have gone I'd say you have to put Kinghorn at 15, and there isn't much point calling Healy up if you won't play him at home to Italy, but I wouldn't discount GT seeing Kinghorn's performances at FB this year and thinking "he's the perfect man for that 10 spot"

[GAD]

2 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Yeah I think the front row is our only area where we don't have at least decent depth at this point. Turner and Ashman the hookers with Cherry the 3rd for me, but with Sutherland not up to speed we really struggle at both props. Nel was largely fine against England but I guess the argument is mobility/ability to last even as a replacement. He's still probably recovering from that shift now. 

On the injuries, with the way things have gone I'd say you have to put Kinghorn at 15, and there isn't much point calling Healy up if you won't play him at home to Italy, but I wouldn't discount GT seeing Kinghorn's performances at FB this year and thinking "he's the perfect man for that 10 spot"

Yeah, Kinghorn at 15 for me, he's played well there against Italy before as well. I think Finn is obviously the bigger loss, but he clearly carried an injury into that game on Sunday, no way was he fit. I think I'd rather have Nel involved to be honest. None of Berghan, Bhatti or Brown did much carrying anyway, not the way Schoeman, Turner and Fagerson did. I wonder if a couple of other guys who have maybe been unlucky not to get more game time might come in as well, Watson, Skinner, Healy, Kinghorn and maybe even Horne.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Watched most of the first half back on my lunch today (can't face the second yet). Games like that, or the NZ game in the Autumn, always leads me to look for these sliding doors moments which is probably not all that helpful, but I can't help fixating on that final passage of play (should have been a penalty against Aki for his "tackle" on Tuipulotu just to wind certain people up). I don't want to have a go at someone who's barely played recently and was in a position on the pitch he wouldn't usually be, but WHY does Cummings play that pass. Absolute nothing pass to Turner who can't really do anything but get tackled into touch, if Cummings just carries into contact we can recycle and reset. A try there and I think the Irish mood, with all those injuries piling up, is very different. They defended really well in the first half but they looked very worried at times, and going in behind is very different to going in scrathing your head at "not sure how we're winning this one lads but we'll take it!"

Not that it would have made much difference to our second front row utterly shitting the bed I suppose but it probably means we're not spending 25 minutes hopelessly chasing everything, an worse case are in the same position as we were with 20 to go against France, in touching difference. 

But those are the margins that international rugby is fought on - a second row with a nosebleed who hasn't been playing panics, a butterfly flutters its wings etc. 

[Mark Connolly]

18 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Watched most of the first half back on my lunch today (can't face the second yet). Games like that, or the NZ game in the Autumn, always leads me to look for these sliding doors moments which is probably not all that helpful, but I can't help fixating on that final passage of play (should have been a penalty against Aki for his "tackle" on Tuipulotu just to wind certain people up). I don't want to have a go at someone who's barely played recently and was in a position on the pitch he wouldn't usually be, but WHY does Cummings play that pass. Absolute nothing pass to Turner who can't really do anything but get tackled into touch, if Cummings just carries into contact we can recycle and reset. A try there and I think the Irish mood, with all those injuries piling up, is very different. They defended really well in the first half but they looked very worried at times, and going in behind is very different to going in scrathing your head at "not sure how we're winning this one lads but we'll take it!"

Not that it would have made much difference to our second front row utterly shitting the bed I suppose but it probably means we're not spending 25 minutes hopelessly chasing everything, an worse case are in the same position as we were with 20 to go against France, in touching difference. 

But those are the margins that international rugby is fought on - a second row with a nosebleed who hasn't been playing panics, a butterfly flutters its wings etc. 

It was also very un-Cummings like. He wouldn't normally give that pass for Glasgow or Scotland

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

47 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

It was also very un-Cummings like. He wouldn't normally give that pass for Glasgow or Scotland

This picture will be stuck in my head for a while.

Lowe is out of shot in line with Turner, Ringrose is coming that way and regardless would be starting the next phase from the 15; Keenan is on the floor; Hansen is about to make the tackle; 2/3 of the Irish back row is also in this picture. An attack to the far side would be facing Murray, Sexton, Aki, POM and the Irish tight 5. 

Cummings takes the ball in and Schoeman, VdM and Turner are in a perfect place to clear out, White should be able to get that out of the ruck very quickly. Meanwhile we have both centres, Finn and Steyn out of shot, as well as our entire back row. It's as good a place to be attacking edge to edge as you can really get. In reality though... 

ETA: Composure has gone back to being a problem the last two after the insanely clinical first two games, I think just the monumental nature of the challenges getting to us a bit. Another example was Hogg getting bundled into touch just before our try. Obviously worked out for the best but he goes for the big bosh on Sexton when he can really try and step the shoulder, sweep under him. Wanted ot put in a marker though. We also saw at least one of the classic (always against Ireland) Finn giving a far too telegraphed wide ball to Hogg for a bracing shot to the ribs from the same.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[Mark Connolly]

1 minute ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

This picture will be stuck in my head for a while.

Lowe is out of shot in line with Turner, Ringrose is coming that way and regardless would be starting the next phase from the 15; Keenan is on the floor; Hansen is about to make the tackle; 2/3 of the Irish back row is also in this picture. An attack to the far side would be facing Murray, Sexton, Aki, POM and the Irish tight 5. 

Cummings takes the ball in and Schoeman, VdM and Turner are in a perfect place to clear out, White should be able to get that out of the ruck very quickly. Meanwhile we have both centres, Finn and Steyn out of shot, as well as our entire back row. It's as good a place to be attacking edge to edge as you can really get. In reality though... 

Straighten there, and Hansen probably goes off injured with that awful tackle technique as well

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

3 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

Straighten there, and Hansen probably goes off injured with that awful tackle technique as well

I mean you can't argue with his performance on Sunday but there are parts of his (and Lowe's) games which are really not great. But then we saw the same with Duhan this weekend, there's very few Josh Adams/Mapimpi type all round excellent wingers at the moment. All have some issues in their games.

[Savage Henry]

Kinghorn at 10. Sigh.  Might take a loss here to put an end to this nonsense. 
 

 

[GAD]

Looking at the front row on the bench and thinking about what could have been....

Problem with Kinghorn at 10 is that he's not absolutely terrible. He'll do ok, will be mostly fine up to a point, but that's it. He's not going to get much better. We've also not got a kicker now for this game, Kinghorn isn't an international class kicker. Healy probably is.

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by GAD

[come on shire]

I don't wish to disrespect Italy but we're at home to them and we still have a strong enough squad on paper. If we play well we still need to target the winning bonus point.

The summer games offer further experiments but Kinghorn at 10 is a realistic option at the world cup in the games against Tonga and Romania.

[come on shire]

Our visitors are missing Ange Capuozzo.

[Savage Henry]

13 minutes ago, come on shire said:

Our visitors are missing Ange Capuozzo.

It’s Sebastian Negri I’m concerned about. That guy is absolutely class. 
 

They’ve also finally dropped the hopeless scrum half. 

[honestly united]

I would rather see what Healy has than give Kinghorn another run at 10, however its clear Kinghorn is our bench option for 10 / 15 / Wing going forward. I dont think Kinghorn is even 2nd choice 10 as that is clearly Hastings, and 3rd choice would be either Thomson or Healy for me but Kinghorn is clearly going to be in the world cup squad. Im not sure if the selection says more about Healy's ability (or lack there off) at 10, or how well Smith is going at 10. Im sure the last few Glasgow games McKay had been shunted to the wing to accommodate Smith at fullback so maybe he is seen as playing well and more deserving of a shot.

[Mark Connolly]

2 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

They’ve also finally dropped the hopeless scrum half. 

This is an even bigger blow than Finn and Hoggy being out

[Dunning1874]

Sometimes ending up with Kinghorn at 10 could be unavoidable if it's been enforced through injury and you've got a bench stacked with forwards. That scenario is fair enough.

Actively choosing to start him there are about half a dozen better options is madness, and it's even worse when he's the best available option at full back.

[GAD]

2 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

Sometimes ending up with Kinghorn at 10 could be unavoidable if it's been enforced through injury and you've got a bench stacked with forwards. That scenario is fair enough.

Actively choosing to start him there are about half a dozen better options is madness, and it's even worse when he's the best available option at full back.

I think Smith is a decent fullback tbh, a bit underrated. I guess they aren't sure on Healy yet, and with Hastings injured we aren't massively stocked at 10. I just don't think it's going to work out, it's like that time Hogg played 10 against Italy, it was serviceable, did the job, but was nothing more than that and actually nullified a lot of the stuff Hogg is good at.

[Self-raising Lazarus]

Largely agree with what's been said above, for me we need another put and out 10 to put his hand up for selection, so Kinghorn can compete for 15 where I think he's best. But the other slight concern I have is where are our young players? Very few have been involved in this 6 nations, and I'd like to see a few props sprout out the ground sometime soon or I can see us really hampered in scrums.

[peasy23]

On 16/03/2023 at 15:28, Dunning1874 said:

Sometimes ending up with Kinghorn at 10 could be unavoidable if it's been enforced through injury and you've got a bench stacked with forwards. That scenario is fair enough.

Actively choosing to start him there are about half a dozen better options is madness, and it's even worse when he's the best available option at full back.

I find it utterly bizarre tbh, Kinghorn has effectively been the back up full back and performed well whenever he has come on. And now when the full back is missing? Aye, we'll bring in somebody else and shunt you to 10.

If Healy can't be trusted to start against Italy, what actually is the point of bringing him in?

[skiblue]

5 points surely the day... Cmon 3rd place is nae bad