Scots Independence Referendum

[lzreid]

I'm not going to attempt to change your mind, as I find your mindset utterly puzzling and would rather understand it better before I seek to correct it.

I see. Good answer, cleared it all up.

[Disco Duck]

Ah, so you DO want things to stay the same! So what are you going to do when the oil runs out? What about if the tourist industry dies? What about after Silicon Glen snuffs it? What are we going to do? Now, these are all perfectly valid questions to ask ANYONE who hopes to run Scotland, so why is it only the SNP that are expected to answer them? The economic argument works both ways.

It's only the SNP that has to argue them because it's only the SNP that wants an independent Scotland. "What are we going to do?" As far as I am concerned, "we" in the United Kingdom, or my immediate family.

There is no more importance to a Unionist to explaning what should be done for Scotland if Silicon Glen dies than there is in explaining what should be done for West Lothian, or Livingston, or whichever town the latest factory has closed. Likewise, the oil industry - that's an Aberdeen problem as far as I am concerned, or a British one, not a Scottish one.

You are choosing to draw arbitrary boundaries on a map, the origins of which have moved in time, based on your notion of nationalism. Your notions of nationalism are not the same as mine.

Your question would be more appropriate if phrased as "what would you do for your country" when the oil runs out, and I would suggest that the UK is doing far more to address that than Scotland on its own is doing.

[renton]

"Only" and "sole" are near enough synonyms. Your second reply, the repeated one, made no indication that it was not the "only" thing.

You can recant it if you want but let's not rewrite the past here. Your original AND repeated position was a psychopathic absurdity.

by the time you introduced sole into the conversation, I clarified my position to be 'main', if that wa swhat you took from the original post then I apologise for my lack of clarity - now please stop claling me a psychopath or I'll hunt you down and gut you slowly .

Oh, right. Well, that's that plan down the drain, after all nowhere else on earth have lowered corporation taxes stimulated growth and FDI.

Will it counter balance having to pay a Scottish workforce of 100 guys 30,000 a year against paying a malaysian workforce to do the same job for less than a third of that? That's the dilemma.

It is true that we are somewhere in the middle of the two and that this can be a jack-of-all-trades situation but I do not share the view that it is entirely hopeless.

Geographically we're hopeless, off all the major ocean trade routes, it's a b*****d.

Serious question: should the UK as a collective entity just organise a huge civic suicide? I am 100% serious when I ask you what do we have left to live for?

New economy jobs, there are huge subsidies on MEMS manufacutirng, renewable energy sources, new fuel types.... we need to get in a position where we are world leaders in something, that's the industry current plan, try and get ahead now, it's the only way we can get and maintain jobs that don't fritter away every five years....

So, then, the idea that Scotland lacks political talent is correct only insofar as everyone and everywhere lacks political talent. Is this what you're saying?

If so is it in identical measure worldwide?

Quite so, but then, the only ones I have to worry about are our lot. I think it does differ in scope world wide, we just seem to be sitting on a nadir of competency - albeit it's a 30 odd year nadir....

[Disco Duck]

Most of my friends - not all, but most - are either from the liberal west or at least draw their worldview primarily from it. Independence from one small part of the liberal west does not mean closing all doors to it or its intellectual heritage.

Indeed. However, I find I have nothing in common with people from, say, the Outer Hebrides. They've fought with people from my part of the world in the past, and they are geographically remote from me.

Why, therefore, should they be in the same country as me, but the English not?

[H_B]

Indeed. However, I find I have nothing in common with people from, say, the Outer Hebrides. They've fought with people from my part of the world in the past, and they are geographically remote from me.

Why, therefore, should they be in the same country as me, but the English not?

That's what I've always found bemusing about the Independence argument.

I share little in common with my next door neighbours, never mind some farmers from Dumfries.

Why is it in any way better that a government in Edinburgh (that I may very well not have voted for) spends my money?

[Disco Duck]

That's what I've always found bemusing about the Independence argument.

I share little in common with my next door neighbours, never mind some farmers from Dumfries.

Why is it in any way better that a government in Edinburgh (that I may very well not have voted for) spends my money?

Exactly. I'm a practical person and if I thought Scots would do better out of independence in the short, medium and long-term then I would vote for it regardless.

But, that being said, I don't really care who runs my affairs as long as I feel some sort of connection with them, a shared kinship. And I don't believe in this "Jock Tamson's Bairns" bollocks any more than I think the English are all empire-building tories.

There are two unrelated arguments:

- the idealistic reasoning as to why "Scotland" should be an independent nation; and

- whether Scotland would be a practical proposal as an independent nation.

My own answers would be no to the first part for the above reasons, but could be persuaded by the second part. But nobody can ever come up with a solid persuasive argument for me on the second part.

[Guest]

Definitely FOR. An invention to cut away the border separating us and England would also be welcome, so we could float away, preferably as far as possible. I bet the echoes of ''66'' could still be heard though. Also, we have helped to fund their Olympic bid, New Wembley stadium and of course the inevitable World Cup 2018 Bid. What have we got in return? 90% of oil is in Scottish waters, yet when we don't get the funding for new stadiums for Euro 2008 Bid, and we won't get it for 2016 either.

[centralparker]

That's what I've always found bemusing about the Independence argument.

I share little in common with my next door neighbours, never mind some farmers from Dumfries.

Why is it in any way better that a government in Edinburgh (that I may very well not have voted for) spends my money?

All Scots from Lerwick to Berwick share a comradeship and should stick together. That doesn't mean we have to hate the English, merely that we should we running our country the way we see fit while they look after their own part of the island.

[vikingTON]

All Scots from Lerwick to Berwick share a comradeship and should stick together. That doesn't mean we have to hate the English, merely that we should we running our country the way we see fit while they look after their own part of the island.

Nonsense.

I'll expand after work.

[H_B]

All Scots from Lerwick to Berwick share a comradeship and should stick together.

Err, why?

Why not all Britons from Newcastle to Stirling? We share as much of a comradeship.

[H_B]

Also, we have helped to fund their Olympic bid

It's our Olympic bid, or it is London's. It certainly isn't England's.

Who is paying for the Commonwealth Pretendy Games we have been landed with?

[Seanaldinho]

JP-The BNP do have some very good ideas but their way of putting across the ideas is what causes their message to be construed in a way that is harmful to their progress.

The BNP have some good ideas in the same way that Hitler had some good ideas.

AGAINST

[Disco Duck]

All Scots from Lerwick to Berwick share a comradeship and should stick together. That doesn't mean we have to hate the English, merely that we should we running our country the way we see fit while they look after their own part of the island.

[BerwickMad]

Definitely FOR. An invention to cut away the border separating us and England would also be welcome, so we could float away, preferably as far as possible. I bet the echoes of ''66'' could still be heard though. Also, we have helped to fund their Olympic bid, New Wembley stadium and of course the inevitable World Cup 2018 Bid. What have we got in return? 90% of oil is in Scottish waters, yet when we don't get the funding for new stadiums for Euro 2008 Bid, and we won't get it for 2016 either.

Of course they could, because the Scots moan about it more than the English talk about it!

How much of it's in the "Berwick waters"? How about an independent Berwick? We could be rich as f**k down here.

Seriously though, what a doylem!

[H_B]

The BNP have some good ideas in the same way that Hitler had some good ideas.

He helped ensure good roads. Not many potholes. Bad for tank movements.

[H_B]

How much of it's in the "Berwick waters"? How about an independent Berwick? We could be rich as f**k down here.

Or indeed in Orkney and Shetland waters.

It would be poetic justice if moments after Scotland was made Independent the Orcadians and Shetlanders seceded. In fact, it would be absolutely tremendous.

[Guest]

It's our Olympic bid, or it is London's. It certainly isn't England's.

Who is paying for the Commonwealth Pretendy Games we have been landed with?

Are you really comparing the Commonwealth Games to the Olympics? Those were just a few examples, we have never been given the funding to host a major tournament. England have had 1966, 1996, and no doubt 2018. We aren't that far off stadium wise and with a wee bit of investment we could easily have hosted one. I can see your point about it being ours technically as we compete as Britain but it isn't really, it's England's in all but name.

[Disco Duck]

Are you really comparing the Commonwealth Games to the Olympics? Those were just a few examples, we have never been given the funding to host a major tournament. England have had 1966, 1996, and no doubt 2018. We aren't that far off stadium wise and with a wee bit of investment we could easily have hosted one. I can see your point about it being ours technically as we compete as Britain but it isn't really, it's England's in all but name.

It's no less Scotland's than it is Newcastle's, Liverpool's or Bristol's.

It's Londons, nobody elses. Why does ownership of the Olympics run all the way up to the border and then stop?

[Guest]

It's no less Scotland's than it is Newcastle's, Liverpool's or Bristol's.

It's Londons, nobody elses. Why does ownership of the Olympics run all the way up to the border and then stop?

Why are all events always held in England and not other countries of the Union?

[xbl]

It's only the SNP that has to argue them because it's only the SNP that wants an independent Scotland. "What are we going to do?" As far as I am concerned, "we" in the United Kingdom, or my immediate family.

.....

Your question would be more appropriate if phrased as "what would you do for your country" when the oil runs out, and I would suggest that the UK is doing far more to address that than Scotland on its own is doing.

This post has nothing whatsoever to redeem it. It is pish from top to bottom.