Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran/Lebanon)

[Freedom Farter]

29 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Listened intermittently to the R4 Today programme this morning, and it was frightening to hear the predominant voices change from advocating de-escalation and ceasefire to being gung-ho for a full on attack on Iran along with finishing off Hezbollah. The neocons must have just been hibernating since their Iraq catastrophe.

Biden is a neocon. 

(https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war).

A stated idol of his is Henry Jackson, something he shares with Douglas Murray. 

This, much like his cognitive decline, was overlooked in 2020 due to Trump obsession. 

[ICTChris]

In a shocking escalation, Iran launched your mum’s dildo at Israel. 
 

[Granny Danger]

34 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

In a shocking escalation, Iran launched your mum’s dildo at Israel. 
 

You’d get a few quid from Kelbie’s for that.

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Listened intermittently to the R4 Today programme this morning, and it was frightening to hear the predominant voices change from advocating de-escalation and ceasefire to being gung-ho for a full on attack on Iran along with finishing off Hezbollah. The neocons must have just been hibernating since their Iraq catastrophe.

They had petraeus (sp?) on advocating internment camps (which he called "gated communities") that worked so well to pacify Iraq and banish the Taliban. Some neck. 

[GTG_03]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news

 

Why is it always Israel Vs Hezbollah ? Or Israel Vs Hamas ? Surely it's Israel v Lebanon or Israel v Palestine. 

A cynic might say it is to convey the narrative that Israel are only attacking the terrorist groups themselves as opposed to blowing up hospitals and schools...

[ICTChris]

5 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Hezbollah have said they repelled an Israeli attack on Odaisseh, which is a village right on the border.  It's been the site of fighting before, you'd have to assume that it's been heavily fortified by Hezbollah.

A number of IDF soldiers were killed in the fighting in Odaisseh, seven confirmed so far. 

[ClydeTon]

33 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news

 

Why is it always Israel Vs Hezbollah ? Or Israel Vs Hamas ? Surely it's Israel v Lebanon or Israel v Palestine. 

A cynic might say it is to convey the narrative that Israel are only attacking the terrorist groups themselves as opposed to blowing up hospitals and schools...

In the case of Lebanon the Israelis aren't actively attacking the Lebanese State - but Hezbollah.

When we refer to WWII most people say "fighting the Nazis" rather than "fighting the Germans" - even though a lot of german civilians died - and it's much the same thing here.

Less so, obviously, with Palestine because Israel are fully committed to destroying it.

[MazzyStar]

51 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

A number of IDF soldiers were killed in the fighting in Odaisseh, seven confirmed so far. 

Not such a great army after all. 

[TxRover]

The U.S., and its politicians, have a weird relationship with Israel for several reasons. Politicians most often don’t just appear, they generally start working as Staff in Offices, absorbing attitudes and viewpoints. Post WW2, the U.S. failures (isolationism, the S.S. St. Louis, etc) running up to the war lead to a focus on supporting/protecting the nascent county of Israel while “looking the other way” at how the meal was cooked. Then the Middle East became a U.S. vs Soviet sandbox, so the majority of major U.S. politicians are still heavily influenced by that mindset in the Middle East, where the younger analysts and (some) Staff are more neutral. To a certain extent, the U.S. media is equally guilty of this slant and bias.

As more and more of the old guard retire/lose races, the polices of the U.S. will become more neutral in the Middle East, but only more, not totally, due mainly to the intertwined nature of the Israel and U.S. intelligence and military-industrial complex. The other strong influence is the U.S. Jewish Lobby/Community, although the actions of Orthodox Jewish groups in Israel toward Reform Jews is eroding this nexus.

Granny isn’t wrong in suggesting Harris may plot a course to the neutral side of Biden, but the difference won’t be nearly as large as is warranted or needed.

[ICTChris]

Israeli media have criticised the ground invasion following the IDF casualties.

With the success that Israel has had against Hezbollah in terms of long range strikes, you have to ask why they would send troops into a hugely difficult environment, one where Hezbollah have an inbuilt advantage, even with the successes that Israel have had so far. They must have goals, how achievable they are is another matter.

ETA - Israeli journalist’s account of the fight earlier today. Egoz is an IDF unit formed specifically to fight Hezbollah on Southern Lebanon. The village isn’t named but it’s Odaisseh.  There are many, many villages like this in Southern Lebanon.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 16:55 by ICTChris

[Wee-Bey]

Unsurprisingly, it's a lot easier to just carpet bomb civilian areas with no anti aircraft defences than go toe to toe on the ground with guys who will have trained their whole lives for an opportunity to scalp a few IDF goons invading their village.

[Sergeant Wilson]

44 minutes ago, TxRover said:

the U.S. failures , the S.S

Did they have them as well? 

[MazzyStar]

The IDF are a bit shit. I know next to nothing about military tactics but even I know that sending tanks into an urban area without having troops nearby like Israel have been doing in Gaza is a bad idea. 

https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-797153

There was also this story from a few months ago about IDF soldiers deciding to saunter into Lebanon only to get blown up by landmines. 

Edited Wednesday at 17:15 by MazzyStar

[itzdrk]

19 hours ago, Leith Green said:

Does Starmer genuinely think this is UK public opinion?

UK public opinion only matters for domestic affairs.  It's the opinion of genocide Joe and that's all that matters for foreign policy. 

[itzdrk]

14 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Did folks want Iranian missiles to hit Israel and kill innocent people?

That's wild. 

Are there innocents in the IDF or Mossad? 

[GordonS]

37 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

 

With the success that Israel has had against Hezbollah in terms of long range strikes, you have to ask why they would send troops into a hugely difficult environment, one where Hezbollah have an inbuilt advantage, even with the successes that Israel have had so far.
 

Because they are arrogant supremacist f**kwits who have being huffing their own propaganda ever since the last time Hezbollah fought them to a stand-still in 2006. The outcome that time was completely predictable and they've learned nothing from it. If Israel put enough soldiers in, Hezbollah can turn Southern Lebanon into Iwo Jima. 

[itzdrk]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

A number of IDF soldiers were killed in the fighting in Odaisseh, seven confirmed so far. 

[Gorgie greatness]

21 hours ago, ClydeTon said:

Hello, Keir.

 

Always aye we helped Isreal down the weapons but never says aye they missiles that killed women’s & children were uk made. Hypocrisy! 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

The U.S., and its politicians, have a weird relationship with Israel for several reasons. Politicians most often don’t just appear, they generally start working as Staff in Offices, absorbing attitudes and viewpoints. Post WW2, the U.S. failures (isolationism, the S.S. St. Louis, etc) running up to the war lead to a focus on supporting/protecting the nascent county of Israel while “looking the other way” at how the meal was cooked. Then the Middle East became a U.S. vs Soviet sandbox, so the majority of major U.S. politicians are still heavily influenced by that mindset in the Middle East, where the younger analysts and (some) Staff are more neutral. To a certain extent, the U.S. media is equally guilty of this slant and bias.

As more and more of the old guard retire/lose races, the polices of the U.S. will become more neutral in the Middle East, but only more, not totally, due mainly to the intertwined nature of the Israel and U.S. intelligence and military-industrial complex. The other strong influence is the U.S. Jewish Lobby/Community, although the actions of Orthodox Jewish groups in Israel toward Reform Jews is eroding this nexus.

Granny isn’t wrong in suggesting Harris may plot a course to the neutral side of Biden, but the difference won’t be nearly as large as is warranted or needed.

Seen a theory that Russia, Iran, and China, are cycling through attacks on US allies to spread them as thin as possible.

Russia go for Ukraine/NATO, Iran go for Israel, China go for Taiwan.

That's the US trying to support 3 different nations, in 3 different conflicts, in 3 different parts of the world.

Idea is you grind their military and financial power down without them ever entering an outright war as they can't pick just one and can't do all three.

Sounds like a bollocks theory tbh but be interesting to see if things escalate in Taiwan this year.

[ICTChris]

This account has been tracking Hezbollah fighters killed since October last year. 

He’s found 600+, although as the fighting accelerates it’s going to be hard to keep track.