Donathan Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Could you draw us up a table. Serbia Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Slovenia North Macedonia Kosovo Montenegro I'm not sure if there's any further prospect of Bosnia and Herzegovina splitting into their two separate parts like Serbia and Montenegro did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Could you draw us up a table. HTH 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, Fullerene said: I am not an expert on the matter but I had the opinion that Bosnia or even Yugoslavia worked reasonably well until troublesome leaders made a determined effort to exaggerate all differences and demand ethnic purity wherever possible. I don't think Palestine worked too badly for Jews, Christians and Muslims under the Ottomans. Apparently the worst ones for stirring things up in the 19th Century were the Christian Arabs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Could you draw us up a table. 3 minutes ago, Donathan said: Serbia Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Slovenia North Macedonia Kosovo Montenegro I'm not sure if there's any further prospect of Bosnia and Herzegovina splitting into their two separate parts like Serbia and Montenegro did. Would give every side the same number of post-split games for a top/bottom four split though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JokerD Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Any feasibility of a 2 state solution was wrecked years ago and getting more obviously so every day. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory Yes , there will never be a 2 state solution is a sick joke pro Israeli lobby uses to pretend they want peace. Netenyahu supported Hamas he doesn't want a reasonable government there he wants terrorists in charge so he can say to the world , we can never deal with these people 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Donathan said: So you effectively have a 7-state solution there (if we include Kosovo as a recognised independent country). They don't particularly like each other and occasionally you get flare ups at international football matches, but guns aren't being fired on a daily basis. I'm not sure the strength of hatred is as strong there though. Serbs want Kosovo to be part of their country. They don't want all Kosovans dead. It was more complicated than that. Yugoslavia was created as the Kingdom of Southern Slavs taking parts of the Hapsburg Empire and parts of the Ottoman Empire. There were 6 states within that and Serbia had to autonomous regions (Kosovo in the South and Vojvodina in the North). Even then the Serbs were not exclusively in Serbia or the Croatians exclusively in Croatia. Somehow they managed to get along and even had the Winter Olympics in Sarajevo in Bosnia. Then hotheads like Milosovic and Tudjman wrecked it all and caused one war after another. Imagine you can no longer live next door to someone because they use a different calendar. Pathetic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Donathan said: Serbia Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Slovenia North Macedonia Kosovo Montenegro I'm not sure if there's any further prospect of Bosnia and Herzegovina splitting into their two separate parts like Serbia and Montenegro did. Bosnia-Herzegovina is actually split between 3 ethnic groups and corresponding administrative areas. Bosnia is the Bosniak (or Bosnian Muslim) bit. Herzegovina is the Bosnian Croat bit. There's also Republika Srpska, the Bosnian Serb bit. I don't know why but the Serb bit wasn't included in the nation's name. Bosnia-Herzegovina-Srpska would've been a bit ridiculous so maybe one had to be dropped. Edited October 21, 2023 by Freedom Farter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy McJagface Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 21 minutes ago, Donathan said: Serbia Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Slovenia North Macedonia Kosovo Montenegro I'm not sure if there's any further prospect of Bosnia and Herzegovina splitting into their two separate parts like Serbia and Montenegro did. Now that would be a tasty World Cup qualifying group 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 25 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said: Bosnia-Herzegovina is actually split between 3 ethnic groups and corresponding administrative areas. Bosnia is the Bosniak (or Bosnian Muslim) bit. Herzegovina is the Bosnian Croat bit. There's also Republika Srpska, the Bosnian Serb bit. I don't know why but the Serb bit wasn't included in the nation's name. Bosnia-Herzegovina-Sprska would've been a bit ridiculous so maybe one had to be dropped. Herzegovina is just a sub-region of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Maybe it has more Croatians but that is because it is closer to Croatia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 19 minutes ago, Jaggy McJagface said: Now that would be a tasty World Cup qualifying group It’d be like Lithuania not turning up to play Scotland except it would be one of the stadiums not turning up because it’s a smouldering crater. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 41 minutes ago, Donathan said: Serbia Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Slovenia North Macedonia Kosovo Montenegro I'm not sure if there's any further prospect of Bosnia and Herzegovina splitting into their two separate parts like Serbia and Montenegro did. Historically before Yugoslavia was created, Montenegro was a separate country. Fun Fact: When it became independent, its internet domain switched from .yu to .me 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Donathan said: Is the strength of hatred between Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs as strong as the strength of hatred between Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims? You're trying to create an equivalence between the oppressors and the oppressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: HTH LACK 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Jaggy McJagface said: Now that would be a tasty World Cup qualifying group A real group of........no, best not. 3 hours ago, Fullerene said: Historically before Yugoslavia was created, Montenegro was a separate country. Fun Fact: When it became independent, its internet domain switched from .yu to .me 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Fullerene said: It was more complicated than that. Yugoslavia was created as the Kingdom of Southern Slavs taking parts of the Hapsburg Empire and parts of the Ottoman Empire. There were 6 states within that and Serbia had to autonomous regions (Kosovo in the South and Vojvodina in the North). Even then the Serbs were not exclusively in Serbia or the Croatians exclusively in Croatia. Somehow they managed to get along and even had the Winter Olympics in Sarajevo in Bosnia. Then hotheads like Milosovic and Tudjman wrecked it all and caused one war after another. Imagine you can no longer live next door to someone because they use a different calendar. Pathetic. It's actually even more complicated than that, as Yugoslavia 1 (up to 1941) was de facto an expanded Kingdom of Serbia imposing a centralising force on its constituent territories. Yugoslavia 2 under Tito was, like most Communist states, more pragmatic on the national questions. You also have to add Albania into the mix as it was made independent largely at the behest of Austria-Hungary before WW1, and its statehood/territory controlled has been up for grabs at various points since. You don't get Tudjman and Milosevic (or Putin and the Donbass separatists) making an impact without *some* underlying tensions in the community to exploit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 5 hours ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: HTH Wood. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 25 minutes ago, virginton said: It's actually even more complicated than that, as Yugoslavia 1 (up to 1941) was de facto an expanded Kingdom of Serbia imposing a centralising force on its constituent territories. Yugoslavia 2 under Tito was, like most Communist states, more pragmatic on the national questions. You also have to add Albania into the mix as it was made independent largely at the behest of Austria-Hungary before WW1, and its statehood/territory controlled has been up for grabs at various points since. You don't get Tudjman and Milosevic (or Putin and the Donbass separatists) making an impact without *some* underlying tensions in the community to exploit. Yes, I suspect the ethnic tensions were always there but someone like Tito could suppress them or at least hid them from the rest of the world. Once he was gone, Yugoslavia broke into its constituent parts. Fair enough. The real crime was trying to redraw the borders on ethnic grounds along with ethnic cleansing where required. As well as the brutality of war, this encouraged the idea that different people cannot live side side even if they had been doing so for centuries. I despise ethnic purity and the "we are one folk" rhetoric. I thought it had been thoroughly defeated in WW2 but apparently not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 70,000 - 100,000 attend a pro-Palestinian March in London today whilst those shining beacons of Western democracy, France and Germany, have banned such demonstrations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 3 hours ago, coprolite said: LACK Yep, 55cmx55cm, £12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 19 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: 70,000 - 100,000 attend a pro-Palestinian March in London today whilst those shining beacons of Western democracy, France and Germany, have banned such demonstrations. I counted/estimated about 5-600 in Cardiff today, or 5x to 10x the Gammon speed limit protest. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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