Jinky67
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Posts posted by Jinky67
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Just now, wastecoatwilly said:
If you are willing to look at the bigger picture, in terms of Europe Celtic next season have less qualifiers to make the CL group stages why because of our success in the Europa and building the coefficient points in a lesser tournament,yes we need the other teams in Scotland to contribute but that is the reality.
You didn't answer my question
Less qualifiers to reach the Champions League doesn't really mean much when we currently aren't good enough to progress past the 2nd qualifying round. That's the here and now and that's the reality.
We may not even reach the Europa League stages this season, we have to go through 2 other rounds of qualifying with the playoff round seeing us unseeded
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1 hour ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:
You are talking far to much sense Jinky. Klimala should have played last night but instead he picks Christie up front as he won’t drop Brown has cost him and the club.
I get he was raging but calling out players and suggesting they leave last night was silly. That’s a private conversation.Tbh though you are the only Celtic fan on P&B that seems bothered about getting knocked out. The rest are very accepting.
Will this force Edouard to reconsider his future ?
I am livid with it to be fair. As I had mentioned its the inability to learn from his mistakes that really annoys me and I just don't understand the "so long as we win the league" mentality.
Our inability to make progress in Europe impacts our ability to win the league, recruit and retain better players.
I may be a bit of a romantic but for me that's what Celtic were and should be all about. Not just doing in well in Scotland but competing in Europe
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11 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:
Whether we get 30 million from the CL or 15 million from the Europa or 20 million from selling players the club and the business model has been successful.
and you are happy with that? To continue developing players to be sold on? Struggling to compete in Europe so long as we win the league?
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28 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:
We don't need the CL dosh to win the league, our signing policy is clear to everyone, the loyalty of the players and the club is clear after Tierney left.
Players come and go yet we win every domestic trophy available,Lennon can't win with you the minute we lose a game, Celtic can't improve on perfection.This terrifies me as a Celtic fan. I wouldn't be surprised if your surname was Lawell. I'm genuinely hoping you aren't one of those who turned on KT either
The thing is we do need European revenues to win the league. Its those revenues that allow us sign better players than the other teams in the league based on a promise of European Football.
Not being in Europe has a direct impact on the players we retain. Going out last night will have a direct impact on Edouard staying at Celtic which has a very real impact on our ability to win the league.....fact. If you cant or refuse to see that then I guess you rely on blind faith.
Celtic can't improve on perfection eh. I'm pretty sure that's what it said on the lid of the biscuit tin.
Our performances despite winning trophies last season weren't perfect
However it does make me happy that I don't fit into lets just be better than Rangers category of fan, I want to see progression. I want to see us increase the gap on Rangers and again participate in the Champions League one day. We aren't progressing, we are going backwards and its becoming a matter of time before we stop winning every trophy domestically
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20 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:
I said last night on the European thread Lennon has hanged himself out to dry, you have already said you didn't want him in charge.
He is in a lose lose with you even thou CL group stages has never been guaranteed at any time.
Bad result bad performance yes but mountain out of a molehill Feck off.An inability to learn from your previous mistakes doesn't make it just a bad result and just a bad performance. It's a behaviour that will repeat itself time and time again.
A defeat that directly impacts our ability to retain and recruit players that we depend upon to deliver the league isn't a mountain out of a molehill neither. There is a real risk of the wheels falling off here after his outburst.
If you are too blinkered to see that then that's up to you however judging by what we saw last night who is to say getting into the Europa League is a given? The next tie I think isn't until the 24th of September, Edouard could be long gone by then and Lennon is possibly forced to rely on strikers whose confidence he destroyed last night. Christ only knows what Klimala is thinking or feeling just now
Lennon isn't on a lose lose with me, he has every opportunity to change my opinion. What he done last night only suggests that my concerns and reservations about bringing him back are merited
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6 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:
I've already said the manager has took full responsibility for the team selection last night but what has the wage bill got to do with losing a one off game?
He has to, no one else picks the team.
But what he hasn't taken responsibility or apologised for is not learning from the same mistake that put us out of the same competition last year. Buying players and then putting them on the bench to play another player in an unfamiliar position? Failing to make any significant tactical changes to try get us back in the game?
You cannot be happy with this
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10 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:
It's good to see we have different expectations after the first defeat of the season.
I take it you had higher expectations of making the group stages when Rodgers was here?It isn't just a first defeat of the season though is it? Its a significantly embarrassing defeat.
It is also a defeat that impacts our ability to generate much needed revenue. A defeat that impacts our ability to retain our best players. A defeat that damages our reputation further and really shuts down many potential transfer prospects.
If your expectations are met by going out of the Champions League at this stage then yes we are poles apart on what we want to see from our club.
You are mentioning Rodgers and the group stages of the Champions League and within 3 seasons we cant even reach the playoff round of the same competition. That's significant in terms of the backwards steps we are taking and yes im far from happy about that
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2 minutes ago, G51 said:
I think he probably still goes in all honesty. Rodgers was always going to the Premier League at some point, and the opportunity to go to a well established team that isn't at any real risk of relegation doesn't come up all that often.
The real question is why he wasn't replaced by a proper DOF and a decent manager.
Lawwell is exceptionally good at running the non-football side of Celtic. It's bizarre that he didn't find someone to handle the stuff he isn't any good at.
Possibly however I think the decision would definitely have been more difficult if PL was bought into the project and BR's vision.
Marco Rose was the one I would have loved to see but again with PL steering the ship how long before any decent manager gets frustrated
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1 minute ago, Romeo said:
So you are in the "sack the manager" camp then?
I didn't want him in the position permanently in the first instance. What is happening now was an inevitability.
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8 minutes ago, G51 said:
I saw someone put it well last night, Lennon is responsible for the short term failure (losing that match). But Lawwell is responsible for the long term failure (not qualifying for the CL over three years, not developing a football department, allowing it to disintegrate after Rodgers had built it up himself and then left).
Celtic will continue to regress until they revamp the football department.
this pretty much echoes my current feelings.
It also makes me wonder that if BR had the financial support he was looking for from PL would he have had his head turned so easily by Leicester?
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10 minutes ago, Romeo said:
So you think Celtic have "underachieved" already this year?
Your response would mean that managers must be sacked any year they underachieve in Europe?
I do not subscribe to the "we are so good we deserve to be in the CL" thinking either.
Given the squads that Celtic and the **** have, doing reasonably well in the europa is both teams level. But it's heartening to see diddy fans and yourself thinking that if Celtic aren't in the CL we have underachieved.
We may not be CL level but we are better than that.
Its not about the underachieving its about the manner of it. Tactically it was abhorrent, he has learned absolutely nothing from Cluj and Copenhagen and playing without a recognised striker evidenced that. To then say they were not match fit was unacceptable, they aren't match fit as he isn't giving them enough game time.
Klimalas confidence must be as low as it can get, here is a player Lennon bought but doesn't trust him as a striker ahead of Ryan Christie.
Furthermore his outburst last night was embarrassing.
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56 minutes ago, G51 said:
Celtic's transfer record since the Neil Lennon / Nicky Hammond has come in has been... interesting.
In 19/20, only Frimpong (£350k) has been an unqualified success. Jullien (£7m) has had good spells, but has looked abysmal so far this season. There seems to be a general consensus among Celtic fans that Klimala (£3.5m), Bolingoli (£3m), Taylor (£3m), Soro (£2m), Elhamed (£1.6m) either aren't good enough or won't be given a chance.
That's £20m spent, and in return you've got one very good player (who's still very young, so needs his gametime managed carefully) and one inconsistent player.
Yikes.
We have taken massive steps backwards, we should be light years ahead of Rangers considering where they have come from but the reality is they are getting closer to us. We should also be making progress in Europe but cant hide from the fact we are getting further away.
3 seasons and 3 embarrassing defeats to go out of the champions league qualifiers, Peter Lawell is accountable for taking us backwards in that respect and not supporting managers with what they need. Brendan Rodgers all but called him out on that
With regards to Lennon, I personally didn't want him back. Fact is he failed at Hibs and for me isn't capable of taking us to a higher level than Rodgers. But for me his position isn't really tenable any longer. To fail to learn the lessons from Cluj and Copenhagen is unacceptable, to play without a recognised striker at home is unacceptable, to continue playing with 1 up top when behind with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable, to then put players on blast and start the rumours of who wants to leave is unacceptable. To suggest he doesn't know Edouards status/fitness is unacceptable.
He is in danger of loosing the dressing room, he has already now lost major bargaining power to try keep Edouard or attract any half decent signings (not that he can really be trusted with signings as all but 1 in Frimpong aren't good enough) and to find himself in that position in a season that means so much to the fanbase is completely unacceptable
We shouldn't be in this position, genuinely embarrassed with that last night.
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12 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:
retrospective action will come in tomorrow for several breaches.
Can’t see how the can, there is no strict liability in the Scottish game currently so it’s attempting to close the door after the horse has bolted.
I can imagine Celtics lawyers already are prepared to deal with that
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16 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
Why would Aberdeen be held liable here? First of all, they don't have the magical power to control their employees outside of their working hours, but more importantly they were just eight of many people out in pubs and restaurants in Aberdeen on that Saturday night, all of whom had the potential to catch the virus. Those eight players choosing to stay at home would most likely have had a negligible effect on the outbreak.
Vicarious liability from what I recall is that the employer can be held liable for the negligent actions of their employees if the action was carried out in the course of their employment OR can be connected to what an employee is authorised to do by the employer
If those players weren’t authorised to be out together or given explicit instruction by the club that they hadn’t to go out then that could be seen as negligence. Where it could get interesting is if one of those players has transmitted Covid, could Aberdeen then become liable to any claims for financial losses by an individual/s due to an Aberdeen player breaking club rules and transmitting the virus?
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2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
I'm going to need a citation for that bold claim.
It’s a question more than a claim to be fair, I’ve edited my post to try make that clear. I have no idea if they have transmitted the virus however if proven that they have could Aberdeen be held liable?
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47 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:
Plenty of countries have strict liability for their fans. It is almost inconceivable that they don’t have strict liability for their players.
Celtic or Aberdeen may have a very comprehensive due diligence defence, that is they put in place strict protocols, tested them, and routinely checked their efficacy, but as everyone in any senior position of a company knows, you are still responsible for the actions of employees - all you can do is mitigate them.
There is an argument for both personal and collective responsibility, but the idea that any company (or football club) is not responsible is utterly absurd.
2 points/questions regarding Celtic
Celtic would argue Bolingoli acted independently and his trip to Spain was not in the course of his employment so they aren’t liable?
Secondly Bolingoli hasn’t contracted Covid-19 or has passed the infection to anyone so what are they exactly liable for? A postponement of games that will be replayed? If the league was suspended and clubs incurred significantly financial loss then possibly?
The situation regarding Aberdeen may be different because some of them have contracted Covid and subsequently transmitted it to others?
Im not an expert on this so it is just an opinion/questions based on having some involvement with a previous vicarious liability claim so happy to be corrected and educated
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2 minutes ago, Disco30 said:7 minutes ago, Rugster said:Neither Celtic or Aberdeen to play over the course of the next week according to Nicola Sturgeon.
Haven't seen this were did u see this ?
Nicola Sturgeons live press conference she says she doesn’t expect to see either teams play, Jason Leitch backed this up suggesting he has already spoken to the SPL and there has to be implications to protect public health
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12 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
Celtic have exactly 0 cases of coronavirus based on their testing, so I'm not clear what UEFA would be investigating here.
That could change if Bolingoli starts to display symptoms
if Celtic are now forced not to play matches for now for a defined period in the interest of public health that match may be in jeopardy anyway
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Makes me wonder if Reykjavik will be watching this and potentially asking UEFA to investigate.
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10 minutes ago, Guts said:
https://twitter.com/Richiestoke/status/1293133674280628225
Tweet says
"Boli and Griffiths are not the only two, by the way. This could cost Lennon his job. Three others being investigated. Complete and absolute clusterfuck ."
If that’s the case this has potential to derail the season. How players can show this level of contempt toward the club and more importantly the fans is beyond me. Hopefully it’s isolated to just Bolingoli and Griffiths which Is still bad enough
3 minutes ago, bennett said:celtic fans on one hand demanding that Bolingoli be sacked and on the other hand desperately claiming that no rules were broken.
Who is claiming no rules have been broken?
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51 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:
Not that you know of.
True, I was just going on the basis of a previous Neil Lennon interview stating he hasn’t left Glasgow
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2 hours ago, Drew Brees said:
Would you be saying the same if it was Edouard?Should it matter? You may not agree with ripping up his contract but he shouldn’t be playing for the club again and yes the same should apply to Edouard however Edouard didn’t leave Glasgow during Covid which would suggest he values his health, his team mates and the club
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13 minutes ago, ropy said:
All clubs need to be ramming the rules and restrictions down the players throats. Presumably Celtic did and this is a breach of their code of conduct. Celtic need to be seen to be dealing with this, not a quiet word.
It’s gross misconduct imo. He knowingly ignored the direction given by both club and government, knew the risks it carried to himself and his teammates and went away. It’s dishonest and put health and the game in general at risk, it’s unacceptable
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Unacceptable he’s has risked the health of himself and his teammates and put the season at risk while knowing what’s at stake.
This is on another level from what happened with the Aberdeen players
Rip up his contract and donate his wages to the NHS
What a p***k
2
The Celtic All Seasons thread
in Scottish Premiership General Chatter
Posted
If hes going I would imagine it will be England. I'm still clinging to some hope we can convince him to give us one more season despite last nights outburst.
If he does go I hope we at least hold out for the right money instead of accepting a low ball offer now we are out of the CL