Livingston - all the threads merged

[Guest SHAKINZ]

I don't actually hate Livi. I actually respect some of your fellow fans who have come on here and been prepared to debate as opposed to just saying "stop f*cking moaning etc..."

I just don't see how after all of what has gone on the club do not receive even one sanction whether it be points or otherwise.

good mate we need some support what ever happens happens and i hope ur not gonna miss any games that involve livingston

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Now that Massone has sold his shares, I'd imagine McGruther's involvement will end once payment plans are agreed with taxman and council and the CVA is drawn up and signed off.

Do all the creditors have to agree to this arrangement for it to work??? Cos If I was owed, say £10,000, and I saw that the IR and the cooncil were getting paid in full and was then offered 10p in the £ I would be fucking raging and would most likely tell them to GTF. Then I'd take em to court..

Is this possible or am I taking bollocks (again)

[EdinburghLivi]

You have a good guy in McDougal. Very crafty, but good overall.

P.S. Are there trust members on the board? I don't believe McD tolerated this type of thing in the past.

Ged Nixon and an elected member from the Trust will be on the board. We were also insured that no politics would be taking place and that no blazers will be allowed on the board for the sake of it. They will all be doing a job.

In that one highlighted sentence, you are effectively saying that Livingston FC have a significant travelling support that is greater in number than those who attend your place. That my friend, is complete and utter tosh. There are numerous occasions where your travelling support doesn't even come close to three figures.

That's a lie. Not once has our support not "even come close to three figures", you are talking rubbish. While we may have been under on a few occasions, there is no question that we were close to 100. That's nothing to be proud of but there is no need to lie.

Perhaps he'll have a better chance of getting a life when he gets the money he's due from Rankine/McDougall/Nixon. Failing that, perhaps the SFL will show some gumption and give Livi a punishment they deserve. The latter may not help Duncan and the other creditors get his money, but at least it could provide some hope for the future that our governing body is not a completely lost cause. I await to be convinced that we can expect any such action from the SFL.

As I've said before Duncan Freemason isn't a current creditor of Livingston FC. He was shafted in the 2004 admin, which as I've said was disgraceful.

There are a few concerns I currently have with the way the club is being run.

Firstly, I want to know what Rankine wants to do with the stadium. If I get a chance to see him at some point, I will ask him directly. I have no problem with moving stadiums if it's in our best interests with much lower running costs but I want to be informed that we will be moving, this is essential.

My second concern is the fact that they said that they will be paying the WLC and HMRC in full but going to a CVA with the small creditors. Surely a payment plan could be knocked up so that they can get their money back over a period of time. As I said on LiviLions, it's not the WLC and HMRC that are struggling through the recession, it's the small businesses. I'd hope that these businesses are offered free hospitality along with their CVA, if that's what it comes to.

Otherwise, I was extremely impressed with the words coming out of Ged Nixon's mouth especially the line "this club won't spend anything more than 99.5p for every pound it earns" and I am optomistic for the long-term club's future. It could be the case that we suffer a point deduction (morally, I'd prefer that as long as it wasn't excessive) and get relegated but I have no doubt that we can progress as a club with these guys in charge in the long-term with us working hard with the business community and the people of Livingston.

[southview]

Do all the creditors have to agree to this arrangement for it to work??? Cos If I was owed, say £10,000, and I saw that the IR and the cooncil were getting paid in full and was then offered 10p in the £ I would be fucking raging and would most likely tell them to GTF. Then I'd take em to court..

Is this possible or am I taking bollocks (again)

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I think a certain percentage of creditors signing up is all it takes for it to be signed and sealed.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

I believe Livi should be deducted points. There was a major argument for relegating them right now, but for me that was a less favourable option as Airdrie and Cowdenbeath would have been hugely disadvantaged.

Livi are not "technically" in administration/liquidation. I find this staggering to believe but apparently that is the case, despite their complex situation. I don't think clubs will vote to have them deducted points given this information and I reckon Longmuir and his chums will advise accordingly.

I also find it hard to believe, rightly or wrongly, that you can draw up a CVA without entering administration but company law and the like is not my strong point.

I agree with this post but I really don't think we can second guess the decision that will be made, I think the only one of a few who guessed yesterday's outcome was DF so wonder what he thinks? failing that who wrote the wee SFL boardroom meeting sketch which ended with the whisky glasses clunking? I fair enjoyed that, could you whip up another to go with the new situation?

[trainspotter]

Livingston are - and will remain for the foreseeable future - in something more than "a bit of financial bother".

Is there not still the matter of HMRC, who are a slightly tougher nut to crack than the SFL and whose rules are not made up on the hoof.

Edit: already asked several times above as I was posting.

Edited July 31, 2009 by trainspotter

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Do all the creditors have to agree to this arrangement for it to work??? Cos If I was owed, say £10,000, and I saw that the IR and the cooncil were getting paid in full and was then offered 10p in the £ I would be fucking raging and would most likely tell them to GTF. Then I'd take em to court..

Is this possible or am I taking bollocks (again)

I think that is very true & what happened to Duncan Freemason the last time we went into admin, Hence he, quite rightly, never wants to see us do it again & neither do I, quite frankly!

[Numbers]

Lets put this in its real perspective here. No technically livi are not in administration but they are, by court order, under interim management which in itself constitutes breaches of SFL rules which makes them liable to penalties.

The new owners are aware of this. Why do you think they have dictated there terms for livi's possible survival. Its this that is now the issue.

Are other clubs and the SFL going to allow themselves to be steamrolled and dictated to like this or are they going to shown charactor and call livi's bluff.

In my eyes i see this as livi now trying to make fools out of our clubs too. I have no doubt if i came on here and dictated to you guys you would soon tell me to GTF. Can anyone tell me where there is a difference.

[southview]

Lets put this in its real perspective here. No technically livi are not in administration but they are, by court order, under interim management which in itself constitutes breaches of SFL rules which makes them liable to penalties.

The new owners are aware of this. Why do you think they have dictated there terms for livi's possible survival. Its this that is now the issue.

Are other clubs and the SFL going to allow themselves to be steamrolled and dictated to like this or are they going to shown charactor and call livi's bluff.

In my eyes i see this as livi now trying to make fools out of our clubs too. I have no doubt if i came on here and dictated to you guys you would soon tell me to GTF. Can anyone tell me where there is a difference.

1. The clubs may have the stomach for a fight but the SFL have already allowed themselves to be told what's happening.

2. Of course we wouldn't. We would have a vote first then tell you to GTF

EDIT: Cos for some reason I don't know how to seperate quotes and reply!

Edited July 31, 2009 by southview

[Div]

Congratulations Signor Massone - a profit of £49,999 and a years worth of publicity that a maniac like him would, usually, have to kill (or die) for.

Yip, I said yesterday in this thread that I couldn't understand anyone getting involved in buying a football club, particularly in this financial climate, however Angelo Massone has made £50k profit on his "investment" inside a year, enjoyed a year of corporate jollys, unprecedented publicity and accommodation, cars and flights all paid for as he fannied around between Scotland and Italy.

Seems like a good deal to me.

What I particularly liked was the quote I read on the BBC site saying that he hadn't ruled out getting involved with another Scottish Club in the future

[EdinburghLivi]

As I also said on LiviLions, I will attend any demonstration that is started up to stop this man getting involved in another small Scottish club, as long as it's within a reasonable distance. I can't drive yet

[MCL]

No no to what MCL

To the first two questions is what I think the answers are.

[Numbers]

Great reply, you fanny Hahahahahahahaha

[RH33]

Could someone please give me a potted update on last 48hrs?

Are they fucked?

[MCL]

Great reply, you fanny Hahahahahahahaha

:lol:

Ok, the first one technically wasn't a question because it didn't have a question mark but -

If this is now correct and massone has sold his shares then there is no need for a vote as a new company need not be formed.

No, in my view there is no need for a vote to change the rules to transfer the league place

So now Livi should remain in interim administration, which is still against the rules and penalties should be imposed, but will they???

No, in my opinion there won't be penalties. Did the league start with the Alba Cup or does it officially start with the first league game ? I don't think that we will be in admin when the league kicks off next week so therefore penalties don't apply. I might be wrong but I thought penalties only kicked in if a club goes into full administration.

Can I be downgraded to a fud ?? :lol:

[Numbers]

Sorry MCL that was not a reply to you, but to Southview.

Thanks for your reply though.

[thejailender]

Another twist tonight then in that Masonne has gone. Probably best for Livingston, but he certainly helped the Scottish press in filling a few column inches over th last year.

What will happen now though.

I very much doubt the vote on the rule change will happen, there is no need, and the only way it would happen is if some of the clubs are looking for a way to create a possible loop hole for themselves, but it was mentioned that 75% (or there abouts) would need to vote in favour of the change and I don't see that happening now as no clubs future currently survives on it... Maybe in the future some other would-be football directors will raise the motion - Stirling Albions fans trying to buy their own club ??

As for any punishment - this one is a lot harder to call. A lot will depend on how confident the chairmen are on their own clubs finances. If some clubs are sailing so close to the wind they could be in a similar situation they won't vote for points deductions / penalties, as it would set a precedent that could maybe back fire on themselves.

On the other hand, some clubs could see it as a way of getting an advantage on Livingston - take the other 9 first division clubs, if they vote for say a 15 point deduction, then they would almost certainly ensure their own survival in the first division (albeit a play-off spot still to be avaoided)

The main problem that we have in Scottish Football, is that all the rules are made up and voted on by the clubs themselves, and self preservation is their main concern..

Until the leagues/SFA are run by people not associated with individual clubs this will always continue to be the case.

[MCL]

Sorry MCL that was not a reply to you, but to Southview.

Thanks for your reply though.

I should have guessed the fanny that he is

[bagpuss]

If at the very least there isn't a points deduction then the SFL have failed in their duty to preserve the integrity of their competitions. Airdrie spent no more than they earned and have been relegated for their troubles. Livi spend money they'll never have , stay up, and just ride roughshod over the SFL 'management' , with their new owners threatening to withdraw if they're disadvantaged and the SFL 'management' roll over and have their tummies tickled. Pathetic. The clubs must ensure a vote takes place and an appropriate deduction (somewhere between 8 and 12 points) takes place , and future clubs who transgress get the same.

Reasonable Livi fans accept they deserve a deduction. After all this isn't a first offence.

[Homer Thompson]

Ged Nixon and an elected member from the Trust will be on the board. We were also insured that no politics would be taking place and that no blazers will be allowed on the board for the sake of it. They will all be doing a job.

That's a lie. Not once has our support not "even come close to three figures", you are talking rubbish. While we may have been under on a few occasions, there is no question that we were close to 100. That's nothing to be proud of but there is no need to lie.

As I've said before Duncan Freemason isn't a current creditor of Livingston FC. He was shafted in the 2004 admin, which as I've said was disgraceful.

There are a few concerns I currently have with the way the club is being run.

Firstly, I want to know what Rankine wants to do with the stadium. If I get a chance to see him at some point, I will ask him directly. I have no problem with moving stadiums if it's in our best interests with much lower running costs but I want to be informed that we will be moving, this is essential.

My second concern is the fact that they said that they will be paying the WLC and HMRC in full but going to a CVA with the small creditors. Surely a payment plan could be knocked up so that they can get their money back over a period of time. As I said on LiviLions, it's not the WLC and HMRC that are struggling through the recession, it's the small businesses. I'd hope that these businesses are offered free hospitality along with their CVA, if that's what it comes to.

Otherwise, I was extremely impressed with the words coming out of Ged Nixon's mouth especially the line "this club won't spend anything more than 99.5p for every pound it earns" and I am optomistic for the long-term club's future. It could be the case that we suffer a point deduction (morally, I'd prefer that as long as it wasn't excessive) and get relegated but I have no doubt that we can progress as a club with these guys in charge in the long-term with us working hard with the business community and the people of Livingston.

Is that from the current debt, or future debt the next regime will run up? I cant see how anyone associated with livvi could be impressed with anything less than 100p for every pound. What will it take to get livvi fans out of this idea that its acceptable to run up debts and then not pay them off

Could someone please give me a potted update on last 48hrs?

Are they fucked?

Far from it. They were "saved" by the SFL and left in Div 1 without any penalties - yet! Massone has now sold up so the interm manager is now free to sell to the consortium thats waiting in the wings, and who has guaranteed first division football for next season.