Livingston - all the threads merged

[Durnford]

10 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

I'm not convinced its due to switching off. I think its players making it known they're leaving, then the effect that has both on squad morale and team selection.

The pattern the last 5 years has been roughly the same. A fairly poor season start due to summer upheavals. Then the team clicking into gear and achieving excellent results from about October to February. Then comes a tailing off again in March as upcoming player departures affect results.

We actually had a better start this season because player departures last summer were down on previous years. However, we lost 6 weeks from our October - February "good period" due to the World Cup, so we've still ended up mid table.

Seems a pretty valid point; we've had years when relatively influential player such as Guthrie; Forrest and others. Even Bartley required a bit of a rethink. Also other years having such a large loan contingent seemed to make things a bit choppy at the end.

Leastways now it seems we've settled in to the norm of longer contracts with an optional one year extension which hopefully will see a greater degree of stability.

[Troy.1995]

I genuinely suspect our stability will be severely tested next season.Weve had relative success since weve came back up to the Prem.But I fear next season will provide a huge effort to stay in this league.Main reason for saying this I guess is our opponents will strengthen whereas we according to Davie will be facing budget cuts from already the aforementioned budget for next season making new signings highly unlikely.There again with Livi you just never know.Strapping my self in for an absolute ride next season. .

[LIVIFOREVER]

Apart from Nouble i don't see that big a deal losing the players that's leaving, we've had to deal with a lot worse, esp when we lost our whole defence and keeper, plus strikers. Anderson is still here, Holt, Bradley, both Kelly's, Pittman, Obileye, Montano, Bahambloula, Penrice, Shinnie, Boyes, Shamal, Brandon.

 

Devlin and Fitzwater have been a bit off this season, and with them leaving it will give Parkes and Brandon a chance coming into the team, same with Bahamboula with Nouble likely to be away. It's not as if our defence has been rock solid like in prev seasons when we lost Kelly, Gallagher, and Halkett, and still came out fine. As for budget cuts, i see that more not being able to offer increases in wages to the players we have, hence not being able to keep Devlin and Omeonga, rather than it affecting our ability to bring in new players, we'll just do what we've always done, get certain type of players on the cheap, young ones with talent like St Kelly and Bradley, or players like Nouble & JET, that haven't thus far managed to hit their potential but have bags of skill to do a job for us.

Edited May 1, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[LIVIFOREVER]

13 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

I'm not convinced its due to switching off. I think its players making it known they're leaving, then the effect that has both on squad morale and team selection.

The pattern the last 5 years has been roughly the same. A fairly poor season start due to summer upheavals. Then the team clicking into gear and achieving excellent results from about October to February. Then comes a tailing off again in March as upcoming player departures affect results.

We actually had a better start this season because player departures last summer were down on previous years. However, we lost 6 weeks from our October - February "good period" due to the World Cup, so we've still ended up mid table.

I also think the players leaving will have a certain amount of protecting themselves from injuries on their minds, and will be playing within themselves, you def saw that from Nouble against Utd, which will account for a drop off in form towards the end of the season. Which is why we shouldn't be playing them the last 5 games. I know we're trying to get money for Nouble, but he's done enough throughout the season for potential buyers to know what he can do, i'd really limit his game time in these last few games. Unless he starts showing up again.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

I also think the players leaving will have a certain amount of protecting themselves from injuries on their minds, and will be playing within themselves, you def saw that from Nouble against Utd, which will account for a drop off in form towards the end of the season. Which is why we shouldn't be playing them the last 5 games. I know we're trying to get money for Nouble, but he's done enough throughout the season for potential buyers to know what he can do, i'd really limit his game time in these last few games. Unless he starts showing up again.

Maybe but then JET's post-split performances in the 20/21 season went a long way to enticing the Aberdeen bid for him that summer. He was actually the only player who scored for us in those 5 matches as our form had completely cratered.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, FreedomFarter said:

Maybe but then JET's post-split performances in the 20/21 season went a long way to enticing the Aberdeen bid for him that summer. He was actually the only player who scored for us in those 5 matches as our form had completely cratered.

Bit of a difference between Nouble and JET's season though, Nouble has been very good from the start, scoring in high profile games too, twice against Sevco, JET wasn't fit till after half way through the season, and by the last 5 games he was hitting his best form, looks like the opposite from Nouble, and if anyone isn't already sold on him they're not going to be impressed watching his run in of games if he's as bad as he was against Utd.

[ATLIS]

9 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Bit of a difference between Nouble and JET's season though, Nouble has been very good from the start, scoring in high profile games too, twice against Sevco, JET wasn't fit till after half way through the season, and by the last 5 games he was hitting his best form, looks like the opposite from Nouble, and if anyone isn't already sold on him they're not going to be impressed watching his run in of games if he's as bad as he was against Utd.

Interestingly I saw the agency that are sorting Nouble's transfer out are involved in this:
 

 

No clue how that'll go but they seem to be involved in their conferences and use the app for other deals. I imagine he's aiming to go back down south and Championship level is about right I'd think. Just hope we get a team a bit better than QPR this time around for any future sell on %.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Bit of a difference between Nouble and JET's season though, Nouble has been very good from the start, scoring in high profile games too, twice against Sevco, JET wasn't fit till after half way through the season, and by the last 5 games he was hitting his best form, looks like the opposite from Nouble, and if anyone isn't already sold on him they're not going to be impressed watching his run in of games if he's as bad as he was against Utd.

You're right, it's not a good parallel. JET was probably just a low-risk, cheap "bonus" signing for Aberdeen and caught their eye almost exclusively from that belter of a performance he gave against them. Whereas Nouble will be significantly higher cost for any summer suitors so they'll have thoroughly assessed him already by this point.

Personally, I'm a lot less down on Nouble's recent form. It's true that he's been ineffective in the last 3 away matches but I'd argue he was constrained by the abysmal team performances each time. Contrast that with the last 3 home matches when he's opened the scoring each time. His goal against Hibs was fantastic and he looked primed at that point to go on to have a great performance but our pathetic defending instead saw the Hibs attackers getting the plaudits. His goals against County and St Johnstone in the next matches proved crucial in those wins. So he's struggled in away matches but only as part of wider team shitshows. At home he's been at least clinical and at times even unplayable.

[ATLIS]

10 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

You're right, it's not a good parallel. JET was probably just a low-risk, cheap "bonus" signing for Aberdeen and caught their eye almost exclusively from that belter of a performance he gave against them. Whereas Nouble will be significantly higher cost for any summer suitors so they'll have thoroughly assessed him already by this point.

Personally, I'm a lot less down on Nouble's recent form. It's true that he's been ineffective in the last 3 away matches but I'd argue he was constrained by the abysmal team performances each time. Contrast that with the last 3 home matches when he's opened the scoring each time. His goal against Hibs was fantastic and he looked primed at that point to go on to have a great performance but our pathetic defending instead saw the Hibs attackers getting the plaudits. His goals against County and St Johnstone in the next matches proved crucial in those wins. So he's struggled in away matches but only as part of wider team shitshows. At home he's been at least clinical and at times even unplayable.

I think because we know he's away he can be a bit of an easy target, same with Devlin/Fitzwater. I'm guilty of it too but just knowing they wont be here next year means the 'breakup' process has already started mentally I'd imagine.

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

You're right, it's not a good parallel. JET was probably just a low-risk, cheap "bonus" signing for Aberdeen and caught their eye almost exclusively from that belter of a performance he gave against them. Whereas Nouble will be significantly higher cost for any summer suitors so they'll have thoroughly assessed him already by this point.

Personally, I'm a lot less down on Nouble's recent form. It's true that he's been ineffective in the last 3 away matches but I'd argue he was constrained by the abysmal team performances each time. Contrast that with the last 3 home matches when he's opened the scoring each time. His goal against Hibs was fantastic and he looked primed at that point to go on to have a great performance but our pathetic defending instead saw the Hibs attackers getting the plaudits. His goals against County and St Johnstone in the next matches proved crucial in those wins. So he's struggled in away matches but only as part of wider team shitshows. At home he's been at least clinical and at times even unplayable.

Yeah the St Mirren and Motherwell  games had the formation to blame for Nouble not being able to play his usual game, it was more the Utd game that annoyed me. He was playing well within himself and only made one run causing havoc in the Utd defence, every other time he cut inside and put diagonal balls into the box. We all know he can play better than that, and usually takes on players to get to the bye line and cut along into the box before either shooting or cutting the ball back. That's the Nouble we need to see if he's going to be playing in our final five games.

[Guest]

Martindale says Deas is unlikely to choose Livi due to having received more lucrative offers from elsewhere. Deas is a 23 year old left sided centre back and we already have a 22 year old left sided centre back so missing out on him won't be a problem. The Cancar experience this season showed again that young players are rarely happy as squad back ups. Older players are more often accepting of the role. Parkes as back up to Boyes is a good fit at left centre back for next season.

Edited May 4, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[LIVIFOREVER]

Obileye would be good as a no nonsense type CB, just booting the ball to feck clearing it, and dealing with physical challenges heading the ball. It's when he tries to bring it out of defence, esp when pressured, that things get tricky for him. De Lucas looks comfortable on the ball to bring it out of defence, but still looks like he needs to adjust to Scottish football, and could be doing with as much game time as we can give him in the last 5 games, to help him get ready for next season.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Anyone else getting pissed off reading Martindale going on about how envious he is of other team's having thousands of fans, he knows roughly how many we'll sell, it isn't going to increase going on and on and on about how many other clubs sell, i wish he'd give it a fecking rest.

Quote

Livingston boss David Martindale admits he's "envious" of their Premiership rivals who are already into the thousands for season ticket sales - after ringing reception to be told his club are still in double figures for the week.

The Lions manager admitted he will need to be "cute and creative" with recruitment this summer with the club's balance sheets showing losses for last year and projecting more for 2023. He also discussed season ticket sales, admitting the club can't compare to the likes of Aberdeen and Dundee United who are already into the thousands for season ticket sales. Livingston have the lowest average attendance in the Premiership this season with bottom six rivals like St Johnstone, Motherwell and Kilmarnock all regularly attracting larger home crowds.

Bit early for most folk too, i suspect most Livi fans will wait till the season is actually over before renewing their ST's.

[LiviLion]

3 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Anyone else getting pissed off reading Martindale going on about how envious he is of other team's having thousands of fans, he knows roughly how many we'll sell, it isn't going to increase going on and on and on about how many other clubs sell, i wish he'd give it a fecking rest.

Bit early for most folk too, i suspect most Livi fans will wait till the season is actually over before renewing their ST's.

Aye, I notice they're doing a draw to win a signed shirt if you buy your ST by May 8th; a whole 5 days notice for that one. Going to be about 5 folk in that raffle, would have made much more sense having it for those who take up the early bird prices. Personally waiting to see what the credit options are.

Obviously struggling budget wise and trying to do anything to get some money in so they can work with definites rather than how much they think will be sold/how much they sold last season.

[The Wrong Car]

39 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Anyone else getting pissed off reading Martindale going on about how envious he is of other team's having thousands of fans, he knows roughly how many we'll sell, it isn't going to increase going on and on and on about how many other clubs sell, i wish he'd give it a fecking rest.

Bit early for most folk too, i suspect most Livi fans will wait till the season is actually over before renewing their ST's.

I understand that the headline's kicking about are the usual Sun dramatic nonsense, however I'd agree with this. 

Given he spoke about Europe, botched that then botched the top 6 it's probably not the best time to start having a go at fan's commitments. Especially considering they only went on-sale on Monday, and in-person

[LIVIFOREVER]

22 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said:

I understand that the headline's kicking about are the usual Sun dramatic nonsense, however I'd agree with this. 

Given he spoke about Europe, botched that then botched the top 6 it's probably not the best time to start having a go at fan's commitments. Especially considering they only went on-sale on Monday, and in-person

Yeah bemoaning the loss we'll have this season impacting next season's budget is going to hit a raw nerve with the fans too, when it was entirely in the players hands to get a top 6, right up to the final pre split game. 

 

[EdinburghLivi]

Why do we not have an online option to renew season tickets in 2023? 

[TheLad]

2 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Anyone else getting pissed off reading Martindale going on about how envious he is of other team's having thousands of fans, he knows roughly how many we'll sell, it isn't going to increase going on and on and on about how many other clubs sell, i wish he'd give it a fecking rest.

Bit early for most folk too, i suspect most Livi fans will wait till the season is actually over before renewing their ST's.

Supply and demand. If the product isn't that good, you can't expect to sell more. 

The football isn't that good to watch and the potential audience have other options. 

[ATLIS]

2 hours ago, TheLad said:

Supply and demand. If the product isn't that good, you can't expect to sell more. 

The football isn't that good to watch and the potential audience have other options. 

The football is actually pretty good, we just change our game plan to adapt to the opponent in front of us. Sometimes it backfires and we give teams too much respect, like the St Mirren away game, 3-0 down at HT because we changed our entire system. 

We've scored quite a few goals this season that came from playing some really nice football, but it's been against the likes of Ross County and St Johnstone.

The main issue is Rangers/Celtic/Hearts/Hibs fans who were born in Livingston and grew up here. 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, ATLIS said:

The main issue is Rangers/Celtic/Hearts/Hibs fans who were born in Livingston and grew up here. 

You do get a few Hearts fans in places like Broxburn who go to Tynecastle on Saturdays but that's a minority. Really, Livi are competing with the sofas and armchairs which get sat on by English Premier League fans with their Sky subscriptions and Ran/Cel fans with their Viaplay subscriptions.

Attending matches in person beats that and that's what Livi offers. Contrary to the above poster's opinion, I've loved the football these last few years. Watching Nouble has been a lot of fun this season, the best player on show since probably Serrano. I also love seeing unorthodox talents arise like Montaño. The local lad factor is always nice too with McMillan previously, Penrice and Pittman. Obileye's penchant for rousing goals from set pieces. Stephen Kelly's exquisite precision shots. There's plenty other players making similar memorable contributions. Since Martindale, there's been a noticeable change in style for home matches. A more deliberate and controlled build up is often used now rather than just the "second balls" approach of Hopkin and Gary Holt. Its been great as a fan watching all this evolution and improvement.