Livingston - all the threads merged

[Cptn Hooch]

12 hours ago, ATLIS said:

Apparently Parkes still has next season on his deal, which is news to me. Could end up being a decent player if his body comes back up to speed quick enough.

This quote from Martindale about him gave me a laugh at least:

“It was nice to see him get his boots on. He said he woke up excited. That’s a 31-year-old man excited to be playing against Dundee United under-18s. It’s brilliant. That’s football for me."
 

I'm guessing Parkes is technically our Fitzwater replacement then?

It would certainly give us some strong options. Boyes, Obileye, Parkes and De Lucas as CB options. Wonder if the back 3 is something we might think about for next season

[Durnford]

Talking about Parkes I find it somewhat strange that some people view 31 as over the hill for a footballer.

I'm 66 now but at the tender age of 30 I requalified for first team Rugby. Training three times a week when holding down a full time job was a challenge but I managed it with a bit of pure bloody mindedness. 

Of course modern sport is so much more demanding than it was then but I can imagine there were moments when Parkes, during his long injury, started to wonder if his career was over. This is like one last chance; he still has something to prove and I hope he has the determination to carry it through.

[LiviLion]

14 hours ago, ATLIS said:

Apparently Parkes still has next season on his deal, which is news to me. Could end up being a decent player if his body comes back up to speed quick enough.

This quote from Martindale about him gave me a laugh at least:

“It was nice to see him get his boots on. He said he woke up excited. That’s a 31-year-old man excited to be playing against Dundee United under-18s. It’s brilliant. That’s football for me."
 

I'm guessing Parkes is technically our Fitzwater replacement then?

Same here, assumed he was out of contract this summer. I liked him at Exeter and could see why he was our Guthrie replacement, might not hit those heights with all his time out but hopefully he gets a good pre-season and can be the experienced head we need in the defence.

[EdinburghLivi]

15 hours ago, ATLIS said:

Apparently Parkes still has next season on his deal, which is news to me. Could end up being a decent player if his body comes back up to speed quick enough.

When he signed it was a 1 year deal with an option of a further 2 seasons so we must have taken that up, despite him being injured.

[EdinburghLivi]

2 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

It would certainly give us some strong options. Boyes, Obileye, Parkes and De Lucas as CB options. Wonder if the back 3 is something we might think about for next season

Presumably it is given we were interested in Robbie Deas. Wouldn't see the need for a 5th centre back otherwise.

[Durnford]

31 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Presumably it is given we were interested in Robbie Deas. Wouldn't see the need for a 5th centre back otherwise.

Pretty sure the "interest" in Robbie Deas was agent talk to generate interest. Cant see us being able to afford him unless we got a mega bucks sale.

[Cptn Hooch]

26 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Pretty sure the "interest" in Robbie Deas was agent talk to generate interest. Cant see us being able to afford him unless we got a mega bucks sale.

I'm sure Martindale was quoted on the interest. There was the talk of him wanting more players in that age range. He said the same about Bradley and Stephen Kelly

[mozam76]

On 26/04/2023 at 22:40, Durnford said:

Pretty sure Omeonga will be off. Good player but hasn't played enough to justify his wage.

I know every penny will be a prisoner, but Omeonga is on sweeties by all accounts, and still capable of being one of our finest midfielders. Letting him go for purely financial reasons wouldn't make sense to me.

[LIVIFOREVER]

19 hours ago, ATLIS said:

Apparently Parkes still has next season on his deal, which is news to me. Could end up being a decent player if his body comes back up to speed quick enough.

This quote from Martindale about him gave me a laugh at least:

“It was nice to see him get his boots on. He said he woke up excited. That’s a 31-year-old man excited to be playing against Dundee United under-18s. It’s brilliant. That’s football for me."
 

I'm guessing Parkes is technically our Fitzwater replacement then?

I just remember Parkes coming on as a late sub and scoring a winning goal for us against County away, hopefully it wasn't a one off and he can be a threat for us at set pieces.  

[Durnford]

5 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I'm sure Martindale was quoted on the interest. There was the talk of him wanting more players in that age range. He said the same about Bradley and Stephen Kelly

As I recall it was in response to a reporter's question. It seems his agent put out feelers to a lot of clubs with Deas contract up for renewal in the summer. Martindale was one of at least six managers who confirmed they were interested (why wouldn't you).

Incidentally wasn't Bradley signed with the intention of going out on loan  or did I dream that bit?

[The Wrong Car]

3 hours ago, mozam76 said:

I know every penny will be a prisoner, but Omeonga is on sweeties by all accounts, and still capable of being one of our finest midfielders. Letting him go for purely financial reasons wouldn't make sense to me.

I get the feeling that Omeonga only signed as he had few options (pretty sure he signed late in the transfer window) as a favour to Bartley. Now that he's left, I doubt he'll take the same money to be 3rd/4th choice CM when he has experience across Europe

[Guest]

My single biggest difference of opinion with Martindale in the last year is on Omeonga. I'd have had Omeonga and Holt playing together every available moment. They gave our midfield such a solid base both in possession and defensively.

My guess is Martindale didn't want to make Omeonga integral as he knew he was going to lose him on a free at the end of the two year deal. 

[RandomGuy.]

10 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

My guess is Martindale didn't want to make Omeonga integral as he knew he was going to lose him on a free at the end of the two year deal. 

Do you think that mindset harms or helps you?

Maybe miles out but always feels like hes making sure youve got replacements in and ready, yet it seems like it harms you as by the end of the season hes trying to bed folk in and leaving regulars out.

[LIVIFOREVER]

30 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Do you think that mindset harms or helps you?

Maybe miles out but always feels like hes making sure youve got replacements in and ready, yet it seems like it harms you as by the end of the season hes trying to bed folk in and leaving regulars out.

If it's giving us a  jump on the following season and we keep having pretty comfortable finishes, away from the bottom two spots, then yeah, i'd rather have that, than a great season and then struggling the following one right enough.

Also as much as it would be fun getting some trips abroad following us in Europe, you see how Motherwell, Hearts*, and Utd struggled playing domestically and in Europe. It'll be interesting seeing how St Mirren handle it next season if they make the top 5 and get a European spot.

 

*albeit Hearts recovered enough once they went out of Europe to get themselves into the top 6.

Edited April 28, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Do you think that mindset harms or helps you?

Maybe miles out but always feels like hes making sure youve got replacements in and ready, yet it seems like it harms you as by the end of the season hes trying to bed folk in and leaving regulars out.

Well if you're miles out then so am I because that's exactly my theory on what Martindale's thinking is. He's always making sure the team is ready to transition so a collapse doesn't happen when players leave. It's a trade off. It harms us in the short but benefits us long term. I personally think it has cost us Top Six both this season and last but it has also kept us well clear of relegation in all 5 Prem seasons now. 

While that trade off is obviously frustrating, I think its definitely worth it. With the size of club Livi are, relegation could easily mean 10 - 20 seasons in the second and third tiers before top tier promotion is achieved again. 

To describe what the strategy looks like. It's things like trying to convert Sean Kelly into a Premiership standard midfield anchor because he's one of the few squad players who isn't going to be poached away or become unaffordable. While that work is being carried out, Omeonga is on the bench and points are being dropped. That happened last season. That specific project is now complete, though, and we can add Sean Kelly to Pittman as a dependable player who'll be around long term and provide squad backbone amongst the flux.

This all has to be done because Livi crowds and therefore revenue are so much down on the other sides in the league. We lose our better players so much easier than every other club, often on simple freedom of contract.

[Durnford]

I sometimes wonder if starting the season with the mindset of avoid relegation actually works against us. The reasoning i.e. one of the smallest clubs in the premiership with the smallest budget,  makes sense but we seem to switch off pretty much as soon as we look safe for another year. 

Just for once it would be nice to start the season saying we're aiming for top six.

[Cptn Hooch]

2 minutes ago, Durnford said:

I sometimes wonder if starting the season with the mindset of avoid relegation actually works against us. The reasoning i.e. one of the smallest clubs in the premiership with the smallest budget,  makes sense but we seem to switch off pretty much as soon as we look safe for another year. 

Just for once it would be nice to start the season saying we're aiming for top six.

Unfortunately that won't happen without larger crowds or significant investment

[LIVIFOREVER]

28 minutes ago, Durnford said:

I sometimes wonder if starting the season with the mindset of avoid relegation actually works against us. The reasoning i.e. one of the smallest clubs in the premiership with the smallest budget,  makes sense but we seem to switch off pretty much as soon as we look safe for another year. 

Just for once it would be nice to start the season saying we're aiming for top six.

Ironically it was once we were pretty safe sitting in 4th place we started talking about top 6 and Europe we fell off a cliff dropping down to 7th.

[Troy.1995]

4 hours ago, Durnford said:

I sometimes wonder if starting the season with the mindset of avoid relegation actually works against us. The reasoning i.e. one of the smallest clubs in the premiership with the smallest budget,  makes sense but we seem to switch off pretty much as soon as we look safe for another year. 

Just for once it would be nice to start the season saying we're aiming for top six.

You can bet your bottom dollar D,we won't be shouting about top 6 next season.Weve got another campaign in the top flight to look forward to. Would be astonished if we avoided the bottom playoffs tbh.

[Guest]

On 29/04/2023 at 12:52, Durnford said:

I sometimes wonder if starting the season with the mindset of avoid relegation actually works against us. The reasoning i.e. one of the smallest clubs in the premiership with the smallest budget,  makes sense but we seem to switch off pretty much as soon as we look safe for another year. 

Just for once it would be nice to start the season saying we're aiming for top six.

I'm not convinced its due to switching off. I think its players making it known they're leaving, then the effect that has both on squad morale and team selection.

The pattern the last 5 years has been roughly the same. A fairly poor season start due to summer upheavals. Then the team clicking into gear and achieving excellent results from about October to February. Then comes a tailing off again in March as upcoming player departures affect results.

We actually had a better start this season because player departures last summer were down on previous years. However, we lost 6 weeks from our October - February "good period" due to the World Cup, so we've still ended up mid table.