KingfaetheSooth Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) I think most of the problem regarding punishment is that the SFL don't really have any rules governing this situation. It all seems a little bit to vague. For that reason I can see us getting away scot free over this.If the SFL are to emerge from this with any credibility, they must put in place firm, clear and concise rules regarding financial stability at clubs to include administration, insolvency, bad debt, players wage payments and so on. That we have potentially emerged from this situation is one argument, that we can emerge and the rules stay the same is another. You are Ged Nixon and i claim my £5 - please don't give it to me in Livingston shares. That is of course the Ged Nixon who invested under the Flynn regime and at the same time as Irish property developers were looking at investing in Livingston FC. http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/football...-get.3981212.jp You're not Irish are you, Stadio Delle Almondvale? Edited August 3, 2009 by KingfaetheSooth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Who is "we"? I would suggest that Duncan's posts have been presented in a well thought argument style, where as you are just a twat! Agreed. His posts have been some of the best on this thread. No amount of 'soft soaping' from Livingston fans will change the views of many Scottish football fans - many of whom will be joining me in never attending a Livingston home match and not giving the club one penny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 You are Ged Nixon and i claim my £5 - please don't give it to me in Livingston shares. Not quite sure where you are comng from there. If you're due any money, the cheque's in the post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Jeez everyone is paranoid on this thread now! I thought it was just a Livi thing! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Not quite sure where you are comng from there. If you're due any money, the cheque's in the post. Tins of paint instead? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of Jim Morton Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 100 points! Are you going all soft and Liberal Viking??? I'll match your 100 points and raise you a transfer embargo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensburgh Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) from KftS post above a quote attributed to Flynn "If you are in the First Division, no-one makes money from the league games." Now I don't know what's changed since April 2008, but the new consortium's business plan hinges on DIV1 status. If it's not for the potential cash generated, what difference would the league status make? Edited August 3, 2009 by glensburgh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 That was not my point. The point is that it is very easy to be holier-than-thou about not living beyond your means when the truth is you have no choice but to do so because no-one will invest in you or give you credit. "no choice" but to live beyond your means? Is that what you actually meant to say? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 "no choice" but to live beyond your means? Is that what you actually meant to say? I doubt he did. Despite all the spoutings on this thread, there would be a fair few who would happily welcome the rich investor, guaranteeing safe and sound financial prowess quickly forgetting all the aspersions they cast here. It is easy for Albion fans to preach but would they really turn it down? We all know that Dundee are spending beyond their ability to generate business revenue. Our problem is that we have now fallen for it 3 times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 from KftS post above a quote attributed to Flynn "If you are in the First Division, no-one makes money from the league games." Now I don't know what's changed since April 2008, but the new consortium's business plan hinges on DIV1 status. If it's not for the potential cash generated, what difference would the league status make? Obviously first division wasn't enough for Flynn he was after the highlife, the new consortium know we are not an spl club. The thing is I don't know if any of them have said they would walk if we were relegated or if this was just a quote from longmuir, they did not say this in the fans open meeting anyway. Why would the sfl ask for a bond for the first division if they had every intention of dropping us into the second? I don't understand the bond bit if Airdrie are replacing us why the need for us to put up a bond? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Agreed. His posts have been some of the best on this thread. Yes, well as Freemason was one of your fellow daily Gretna baiters over on the MAD boards you would say that, wouldn't you - another one who turns up regularly to gloat at other club's misfortunes and get holier than thou about "financial integrity" and "fan owned clubs" (though one is yet to see you start a campaign up for Queen of the South to become one ) All we need now is fricking Noah and Truth Hurts to turn up for the 'Queue For Those Hoping To Dance On Livingston's Grave' and we'll have the set! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Obviously first division wasn't enough for Flynn he was after the highlife, the new consortium know we are not an spl club. The thing is I don't know if any of them have said they would walk if we were relegated or if this was just a quote from longmuir, they did not say this in the fans open meeting anyway. Why would the sfl ask for a bond for the first division if they had every intention of dropping us into the second? I don't understand the bond bit if Airdrie are replacing us why the need for us to put up a bond? Quite correct. The league want a bond and McDougal and Nixon confirmed that this was the case and the basis of the leagues acceptance of the "new order". We'll be in Division 1! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) From the Livi Official Site; WE ARE pleased to announce that Livingston Football Club is open for business and we would like to thank all fans for their support both at the weekend and during what has been an extremely difficult and stressful past few weeks for all concerned.We sincerely hope that the outstanding matters with the Scottish Football League will be resolved during the course of this week. There is a meeting of the League Management Committee on Wednesday to decide what, if any, action is required in relation to the football club. Following that resolution, we will be in a position to sign things off with our interim manager Donald McGruther of Mazars, and we will be able to move the club forward from that point. There will be a need for a CVA with our creditors. This will be handled by Mr McGruther. From that point forwards, the club will become solvent and ready to play football. The work regarding the directors of the company is ongoing. It can be confirmed that Gordon McDougall will become the chairman of Livingston Football Club, with Albert Tait installed as vice-chairman. Ged Nixon will be appointed as the club's chief executive. There will be further announcements in due course with regards to these matters. With regards to the football side of the club, there will be a number of announcements shortly regarding staff and players. None of that can move forward until after the meeting with the SFL on Wednesday, so there is nothing we can discuss publicly at this point. We are currently preparing the team for playing away to Ross County in our Irn-Bru First Division fixture on Saturday. We encourage all our supporters to buy season tickets for the forthcoming campaign. Information on pricing and how to buy these can be found by clicking here (link deleted) Some supporters have asked about the safety certificate for Almondvale Stadium. We would like to reassure everyone that work is ongoing to secure this and an announcement will be made when possible. Finally, we would like to invite all current signed players from U17's level downwards - and their parents - to attend a meeting in the Almondvale Suite tomorrow night (Tuesday 4 August) at 7pm. The current situation with regards to the youth setup at the club will be discussed at this meeting. We appreciate your patience at this time and hope you will be out in force both in Dingwall on Saturday and at our home match against Queen of the South on Saturday 15 August. Further information will be made available to you as soon as we are in a position to announce anything. The team will also be in action on Wednesday night in a friendly against Falkirk away from home. Kick-off is at 7.30pm, with entry priced at £5 for adults. Kids go for free. Edited August 3, 2009 by AND180Y 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo player Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Looking forward to Duncan F doing a Hugh Dennis Mock the Week style voiceover to that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) "no choice" but to live beyond your means? Is that what you actually meant to say? Sorry, I'll put that better. The point is that it is very easy for clubs (& for that matter fans) to be holier-than-thou about "clubs must not live beyond their means", when the truth is that some clubs have no choice but to live within their means solely because no-one will invest in them or give them credit for major improvements that might propel them to greater things. It's like Aesop's Fox dismissing the grapes as "probably sour anyway" simply because he cannot reach them. The sad truth is that most businesses - and football is no exception - live beyond their means in order not merely according to the old adage of "you've got to speculate to accumulate", but simply to survive. Ask your local supermarket manager about how many of their products are 'loss leaders' just to get people into the habit of regularly using their store instead of the other supermarket down the road. So it is with football, eg. running up a players' wages bill beyond your current earnings in anticipation of increased attendences and merchandise sales; cup runs producing big pay-day matches against prestigious clubs, etc; all on the back of a better squad producing regular wins and more entertaining games. Airdrieonians tragically lived beyond their means so because they were desperate to get back into the top tier rather than face a slow death outside of it, having already forked out for a brand new stadium that would not be just SPL compliant but UEFA competition compliant as well. If they didn't, no one would come to watch them, their income would decline even more, and they would endure a slow lingering death - especially as in the post-Bosman world they were no longer guaranteed to get anything back for star players that moved on to bigger and better things. Had they succeeded in being promoted in 2002 to the SPL, everyone would have been slapping them on the back for their bold business acumen, rather than jumping on the corpse with tackity boots with hideous glee (as they soon did). And what happened to them nearly happened to Falkirk, St Mirren, Motherwell, and Lord knows how many others that didn't make the papers. Hence why I'm cross at the current array of "Burn The Witch" merchants. It could easily have been them. In some cases it was them, but they lived to tell the tale (sometimes by hook, sometimes by crook). They should remember that what goes around, comes around - and may come back round again...especially in a global recession. Edited August 3, 2009 by WaffenThinMint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Yes, well as Freemason was one of your fellow daily Gretna baiters over on the MAD boards you would say that, wouldn't you - another one who turns up regularly to gloat at other club's misfortunes and get holier than thou about "financial integrity" and "fan owned clubs" (though one is yet to see you start a campaign up for Queen of the South to become one )All we need now is fricking Noah and Truth Hurts to turn up for the 'Queue For Those Hoping To Dance On Livingston's Grave' and we'll have the set! Truth hurts has been around but instead of Noah we have AND180Y, & a fine lad he is too, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny_m Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 For the dafties amongst us, does the fact tha CVA is mentioned in the LIvi statement mean that again the creditors will end up with a paltry something pence in the pound. No fucking wonder Duncan gets upset! One thing is for sure, Livi WILL live within their means because from now on i think it will be cash upfront for everything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) The sad truth is that most businesses - and football is no exception - live beyond their means in order not merely according to the old adage of "you've got to speculate to accumulate", but simply to survive. Ask your local supermarket manager about how many of their products are 'loss leaders' just to get people into the habit of regularly using their store instead of the other supermarket down the road. Not the best comparison as promotions in supermarkets are invariably funded by their suppliers. Supermarkets don't sell below cost, their suppliers do. Just look at the state of British food production and the number of firms/farmers that have lost money/gone out of business trying to supply them. In a way just like the creditors of football clubs? Edited August 3, 2009 by AND180Y 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 ...... AND180Y, & a fine lad he is too, I wonder if this is a compliments or an insult? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo player Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 For the dafties amongst us, does the fact tha CVA is mentioned in the LIvi statement mean that again the creditors will end up with a paltry something pence in the pound. Yes ya daftie! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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