The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Ex Machina]

If Ashcroft or a defender of his calibre becomes available, we should be thanking Masson for his service and wishing him well in the future.

He put in a few solid performances, equally looked dodgy in a few. I don't wish the boy any ill will but I doubt he'll ever be a Championship level defender, never mind a Premiership one as we aspire to be as a club.

Once we get someone in, I suspect Arnott will be away to League 2 or the Lowland/Highland Leagues.

Edited January 19 by Ex Machina
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[Rover the Moon]

Genuine question: who was the last youth player we mishandled* or released on a free that we ended up regretting? I honestly can’t think of one. If they were good enough, they would be playing for us or excelling in the lower leagues.

* not counting Vaughan’s Dumbarton loan. Shudder.

[Ex Machina]

24 minutes ago, Rover the Moon said:

Genuine question: who was the last youth player we mishandled* or released on a free that we ended up regretting? I honestly can’t think of one. If they were good enough, they would be playing for us or excelling in the lower leagues.

* not counting Vaughan’s Dumbarton loan. Shudder.

Not fully answering your question as I highly doubt many people regret it but Ross Laidlaw has made a Premiership career for himself which surprised me.

[Kooz92]

3 minutes ago, Ex Machina said:

Not fully answering your question as I highly doubt many people regret it but Ross Laidlaw has made a Premiership career for himself which surprised me.

I think the question was around players we released or mishandled*. Laidlaw wasn't released on a free, I always thought it was a transfer to Hibs but I'm happy to be educated if i'm wrong. I wouldn't say we mishandled Laidlaw either. He played in some friendlies etc and got some time out on loan but he was never going to usurp The Witch or Cuthbert in goals.

One thing is for sure though, he's a player that makes you think "what if..." had he stayed at Raith. Certainly made a good career for himself.

Edited January 19 by Kooz92

[Jilted John]

I’m happy to put my neck on the line and say that Masson won’t ever be a central defender in the professional leagues. He’s nowhere near big enough.

Theres a good player in there but if he’s going to make it at any semi decent level, he will probably need to think about a positional change to either full back or midfield.

[Ex Machina]

28 minutes ago, Kooz92 said:

I think the question was around players we released or mishandled*. Laidlaw wasn't released on a free, I always thought it was a transfer to Hibs but I'm happy to be educated if i'm wrong. I wouldn't say we mishandled Laidlaw either. He played in some friendlies etc and got some time out on loan but he was never going to usurp The Witch or Cuthbert in goals.

One thing is for sure though, he's a player that makes you think "what if..." had he stayed at Raith. Certainly made a good career for himself.

Believe he was released after a season with no appearances. https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs-hand-trial-to-goalkeeper-ross-laidlaw-617985

I don't think he was mishandled either, when he was given games he was nowhere near the level of those in front of him and goalkeeper is a tricky position to let players develop in.

[Broken Algorithms]

34 minutes ago, Kooz92 said:

I think the question was around players we released or mishandled*. Laidlaw wasn't released on a free, I always thought it was a transfer to Hibs but I'm happy to be educated if i'm wrong. I wouldn't say we mishandled Laidlaw either. He played in some friendlies etc and got some time out on loan but he was never going to usurp The Witch or Cuthbert in goals.

One thing is for sure though, he's a player that makes you think "what if..." had he stayed at Raith. Certainly made a good career for himself.

Laidlaw got released by us, then Lennon signed him at Hibs after a few friendly games. Generally speaking, nobody thought his release was a bad thing. We had better goalkeepers on the books at the time as you say and most people felt he was prone to a clanger. 

Credit where credit is due, he's gone on to have a really good career and taken his opportunity well. 

Edited January 19 by Broken Algorithms

[Kooz92]

Just now, Ex Machina said:

Believe he was released after a season with no appearances. https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs-hand-trial-to-goalkeeper-ross-laidlaw-617985

I don't think he was mishandled either, when he was given games he was nowhere near the level of those in front of him and goalkeeper is a tricky position to let players develop in.

Awesome, I was trying to find something about the signing at Hibs but I only found a FFP post about a transfer. In hindsight, some might regret releasing Ross Laidlaw but based on what we saw of him, he was never looking like he'd be the Premiership goalie he has become. Incredible what the proper coaching can do for you.

[AllanJM]

I've honestly not seen enough of Masson to judge whether or not he could make it at this level.  He must have something about him to even be at a club at our level but I trust Ian Murray's judgement on him.  He's another player who would benefit greatly from us having a reserve setup and I really think it's something we need to sort out.

With regards to his size, it absolutely isn't 100% necessary to be big to make it as a CH.  However, not everyone has the defensive skills of Fabio Cannavaro to make up for being smaller than the usual CH (still amazes me that one of the best in my lifetime is only 5'9").

There's absolutely no doubt that Ashcroft would be a great signing for us.  Loads of experience at this level (including winning it) and would add the aggression that has been missing from our defence for the last few months.  An absolute no-brainer if we can get it done.

[CountryBumpkin]

The lack of a development side is probably going to cost us in the short term. Masson, Hannah, Corr and McGill have had so few minutes when fit that they're probably not developing their games sufficiently and with us being at the top of the league, we're in no position to put them into games. Its a shame as these guys are just starting their careers, training on its own is not enough to push them on. 

Masson is probably too short to be a commanding centre back, but then again, Lisandro Martinez is 5ft 8" or something and outperforms the likes of Varane when he plays for Man United (not comparing Masson to Martinez) so anything is possible. I think he's got some promise, probably as a more modern variation of a fullback, either sitting in narrow or moving into midfield. I suspect he'll play out a lot of his career in the lower leagues though sadly. Similarly with Mitchell and Arnott, who two years ago under McGlynn, could have been argued as similar to Dylan Tait and have made us some money. 

[renton]

None of it is an exact science. As noted Laidlaw was released with a general feeling of relief given how prone he was to crises of confidence and he's went on to a good career. 

On the other hand Tait went for semi decent money and what many probably thought was an opportunity to develop into a premier league player and there hs is back playing league 1 football.

There are very few guys, even at our level who come in and basically command a starting berth, and that's really where you need to be to have a hope of cementing a career at this level. Vaughan did, so did Callachan and Matthews. Two of those three were held back by injuries but Callachan has made a decent go of it at a higher level.

You pay your money and take your chances. Potential is only just that, and there are no guarentees.

As for Masson, were he the only young CB we had, I might have more sympathy for Tx's argument. However, it's hard to see Murray mishandling the younger players when he does in fact give game time to Corr and McNeil. Masson is clearly behind Corr in terms of development, and there is a point where simpy being 'badged' as a CB isnt going to get you in front of any number of converted midfielders if you arent developing well enough.

[pub car king]

Masson's development has suffered due to timing and the fact he is a defender. 

Last season we were on our arse for players so he got a few opportunities. This season we are overflowing with midfielders and forwards but defence has been the weakest part of the squad. As such we haven't fielded a consistent defence all season due to injuries and suspensions. 

This has left Masson in the squad as cover and hasn't afforded him the opportunity to go on loan like Arnott, Mitchell or McNeil have. 

Is he a championship level player at the minute, No. 

Does he have the potential to get to that level, maybe?

Does he need to play football, absolutely and in different circumstances he would off on loan to a lower professional league team or south/highland league.

[Jilted John]

I think Renton’s point about being a ‘badged’ centre half is a good one. People might look at the situation and question that Murray playing a midfielder ahead of a ‘recognised’ centre half is in some way mismanaging Masson. The reality is that Scott Brown has probably played more competitive minutes as a Championship centre half than Masson. At some point Broony must become badged in that position too? 

[RoversNProud]

some Rovers fans a are nuts. We are top of the league but still feel the need to be critical.I see a lot of negativity towards how weak our defence has been, yet still happy to have the same guys play, just because they are “experienced”. 
Ashcroft has barely played this season, so not sure a Dundee sub is what we need. 
The laddie Masson had been mentioned unfairly a few times on this thread, yet has rarely played. What about the “experienced lads” who make so many errors week in week out and concede 4 to Ayr, 3 to Partick, 2 to Arbroath? 
From what I’ve seen of the laddie Corr(who is 20 btw not 18) I like. He’s quick, aggressive and can play. I’d like to see him partnered with a Murray or Watson and see how it goes. It can’t be any worse than what we’ve had. 
 

 

[mrraith71]

Just been called in for a shift tomorrow so will have to miss game. Does anyone know if livi will be streaming it? Then I can hopefully catch second half 

[Stardog_champion]

3 hours ago, Ex Machina said:

Not fully answering your question as I highly doubt many people regret it but Ross Laidlaw has made a Premiership career for himself which surprised me.

This might be a bit mean. But Laidlaw having a lengthy career in the Premiership is utterly farcical. For me Dabrowski is a far far superior Goal Keeper. Call it Blue Bias

[SanStarko]

1 hour ago, RoversNProud said:

From what I’ve seen of the laddie Corr(who is 20 btw not 18) I like. He’s quick, aggressive and can play. I’d like to see him partnered with a Murray or Watson and see how it goes. It can’t be any worse than what we’ve had. 
 

 

Corr got unlucky getting injured early on.  Fully expect that if he'd been fit then he would have played alongside Murray after Watson got injured.  As it was Brown got moved in there and given the run we went on since then you can't really blame Murray for sticking with it.

But think about it, if Corr had been fit or Murray had went with Masson at CB then more than likely we'd have still played with Byrne and Brown as two holding midfielders.   Instead Murray was almost forced to switch the formation and it seems to have worked out pretty well so far.

[Stardog_champion]

1 hour ago, RoversNProud said:

some Rovers fans a are nuts. We are top of the league but still feel the need to be critical.I see a lot of negativity towards how weak our defence has been, yet still happy to have the same guys play, just because they are “experienced”. 
Ashcroft has barely played this season, so not sure a Dundee sub is what we need. 
The laddie Masson had been mentioned unfairly a few times on this thread, yet has rarely played. What about the “experienced lads” who make so many errors week in week out and concede 4 to Ayr, 3 to Partick, 2 to Arbroath? 
From what I’ve seen of the laddie Corr(who is 20 btw not 18) I like. He’s quick, aggressive and can play. I’d like to see him partnered with a Murray or Watson and see how it goes. It can’t be any worse than what we’ve had. 
 

 

It’s not a case of being happy for the same experienced players, we have absolutely no choice because of the lack of bodies in defence. We can talk about Ashcroft all day long, at the moment he plays for another club. So we have to deal with the cards that’s been dealt, we have an injury crisis in the weakest part of the team, defeats are inevitable. 

[Hank Scorpio]

Have avoided this forum since last weekend because I assume it was full of complete slavers having mental breakdowns. Hopefully calmed a bit now. Looking forward to tomorrow, temps are to come up a good bit today and tomorrow so hopefully no doubts about it being on. Fancy us to win narrowly. 

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, Wardy said:

Tx, seriously I don’t mean to be a dick, but give it a fucking rest. 
 

“A very good player” based on what? He’s literally hardly played for us. Maybe he has had loan offers. Maybe none have suited or guaranteed game time. None of this we’ll know unless the player himself communicates this.
 

As Grumswall has said previously, Mitchell is out at East Fife and hardly manages to get minutes. Arnott I’m not entirely sure as I haven’t really followed his progress. 

It’s not being a dick, so don’t worry, but a question was asked. Our loans under IM haven’t been great, excluding McNeil, who got shelled weekly at EC, which is useful for a keeper as long as it doesn’t get in their head. I’d really like more clarification on our plans with regard to a reserve team, because that seems a critical item going forward.

Also, it’s disappointing not to have heard any reason for the website update to have simply disappeared from the radar. Surely portions of the new interface could have been rolled out by now.