The Master Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Percentage ratings aren't really appropriate for subjects like Law or the Arts though. But a number between 0 and 21, missing out most of the single digits, is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 But a number between 0 and 21, missing out most of the single digits, is? It's not a number between 0 and 21. They're grades and bands. It's holistic rather than quantitative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 It's not a number between 0 and 21. They're grades and bands. It's holistic rather than quantitative. I don't see how applying a grade band is any different to applying a percentage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I don't see how applying a grade band is any different to applying a percentage. A percentage is extremely exact. Quality of work cannot reliably be reduced to within a percentage point in the Arts. That's fairly straightforward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) A percentage is extremely exact. Quality of work cannot reliably be reduced to within a percentage point in the Arts. And yet it can be reduced to a specific grade? Pull the other one. Science is exact, and needs percentages to make sense. Science is also more important than art, so it's obscene that the entire grading structure of a university should be changed to suit the latter. Edited December 4, 2009 by The Master 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiders For Life Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 A percentage is extremely exact. Quality of work cannot reliably be reduced to within a percentage point in the Arts.That's fairly straightforward. I'd imagine the marking would be done by determining whether something was a first/second upper class etc first and then quantifying it to give you an idea of how secure the essay was within that grade. Similar to how I'd imagine an essay is judged as a 'B' first and then narowed down to whether it is a B1, 2, 412 etc.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Can't say I reckon it makes much difference. It's splitting hairs really, like saying that giving someone a '2' means more than them getting a 'B'. Nothing like a good 24% to let you know you're hopeless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 And yet it can be reduced to a specific grade? Pull the other one.Science is exact, and needs percentages to make sense. Science is also more important than art, so it's obscene that the entire grading structure of a university should be changed to suit the latter. Well yes, it can be reduced to a specific grade. It's easier to break down into 20 or so categories than 100. The importance of science relative to the arts is purely your own opinion. There's nothing unreasonable at all about expecting sciences to convert from a percentage into a grade, because that is easier to do than the other way round. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Well yes, it can be reduced to a specific grade. It's easier to break down into 20 or so categories than 100. Who says that breaking down into a percentage requires 100 categories? A percentage can be worked out from any score. The importance of science relative to the arts is purely your own opinion. Enjoying the use of your computer, are you? There's nothing unreasonable at all about expecting sciences to convert from a percentage into a grade, because that is easier to do than the other way round. There's nothing unreasonable about expecting the arts to convert from a grade into a percentage, because in spite of your assertion doing that is not harder. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 There's nothing unreasonable about expecting the arts to convert from a grade into a percentage, because in spite of your assertion doing that is not harder. It quite clearly is. Given that Universities seek to produce the groups: 1st, 2:1, 2:2, 3 and ordinary, it's logical that they're going to try to reduce the number of groupings. You don't get a "87.5% honours" degree, do you? The aim is to reduce and simplify. If you have 20 grade groups, that means you can group 5 percentage points in the same category with ease. Contrastingly, in the arts, it would be misleading to quibble over 2 to 4 percentage points when in reality it's easier to talk in terms of a grade boundary and how the quality of the work would need to be improved to raise a boundary. There is no advantage to be served in using the percentage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 It quite clearly is. Given that Universities seek to produce the groups: 1st, 2:1, 2:2, 3 and ordinary, it's logical that they're going to try to reduce the number of groupings. You don't get a "87.5% honours" degree, do you? There's still 3 bands for each classification, so your point is negated. The aim is to reduce and simplify. If you have 20 grade groups, that means you can group 5 percentage points in the same category with ease. Contrastingly, in the arts, it would be misleading to quibble over 2 to 4 percentage points when in reality it's easier to talk in terms of a grade boundary and how the quality of the work would need to be improved to raise a boundary. There is no advantage to be served in using the percentage. So let the arts use their own system then convert. It's not difficult for anyone with half a brain (which might explain why it's not done, I suppose...). It's complete madness to abolish percentages in favour of a system of points that only makes sense in a small number of disciplines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Who else actually goes to strathclyde on here? I know of 3 people including myself..I would also like to point out that sociology has lived up to it's expectations of being the most tedious and pathetic subject available. Don't say I didn't warn you. Because I did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Provided the system grading up in %s is rigorous (i.e. a 63% really is a 63%, not one marker's definition of what is also 60% or 65%) it is far better. More flexible; allows greater difference of grading, not just a 2:1 etc.; and allows you to get a decent view if you're improving. Uni also claims it makes it easier to judge marginal/borderline cases. This is rather the point though. In the Arts there is always room for disagreement, sometimes even as significant as a band with regard to a piece of work. Such as is the nature of qualitative work. Percentages would be appropriate if History or Law exams were big long multiple choice exam papers but they're not, so they're not. There's also no such thing as a "perfect" response in essay based subjects; there is in the sciences. It's for that reason that percentages are misleading in the Arts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mojo Rising Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 This is rather the point though. In the Arts there is always room for disagreement, sometimes even as significant as a band with regard to a piece of work. Such as is the nature of qualitative work.Percentages would be appropriate if History or Law exams were big long multiple choice exam papers but they're not, so they're not. There's also no such thing as a "perfect" response in essay based subjects; there is in the sciences. It's for that reason that percentages are misleading in the Arts. Pish, not using percentages just makes things easier for students at mickey mouse unis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Pish, not using percentages just makes things easier for students at mickey mouse unis Yeah, that Micky Mouse University of Glasgow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yeah, that Micky Mouse University of Glasgow I'm not sure what that's supposed to acheive. All it is is a name that nobody really gives a toss about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'm not sure what that's supposed to acheive. All it is is a name that nobody really gives a toss about. Sorry what? He's just branded one of the best Scottish Universities a "Mickey Mouse" University. Fair enough if he was commenting on the University of the West of Scotland, but he wasn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) He's just branded one of the best Scottish Universities a "Mickey Mouse" University. Is this a quantitative fact? Edited December 4, 2009 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mojo Rising Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 So yeah, has anyone ever done the Legal Systems multiple-choice open book exam at Glasgow for Sources and Institutions of Scots Law? Yeah, that Micky Mouse University of Glasgow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) Is this a quantitive fact? Times University Rankings League Table 2010 4th St Andrews 14th Edinburgh 19th Glasgow 33rd Aberdeen 37th= Strathclyde 40th Heriot-Watt 41 Dundee 48th Stirling 51st Robert Gordon University 60th Glasgow Caledonian 61st QM Edinburgh 95th Abertay No other Scottish Universities listed. So yeah, yeah it is a quantitative fact. 3rd best in Scotland. Edited December 4, 2009 by Exuberant 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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