May 2011 Election

[barrysnotter]

It's not our fault that the vast minority of Scots, if not the majority (yourself included) are politically morons.

You know nothing of me or my knowledge, and infact, don't even know my political opinion other than that I detest the current administration. How did you come to such a conclusion? I'm not surprised you came to that conclusion, because you regularly have absurd views.

Also, just because people have a different opinion from you, they are morons? Surely that isn't know politics works?(And I thought that's what you studied, Glasgow Uni must be going down hill). I'd love to see you write a dissertation on the subject. "The socio legal studies of political morons" could be the title. Be sure to include lots of empirical data from P&B. I'm sure you would get an A and as an added bonus it would make great bedtime reading.

[vikingTON]

Mmm I'm beginning to think we have a 'Duncan McNeil' rather than an Iain Gray here.

[renton]

The Unionist parties have also recommended that they oppose the supermarket tax, although some of the Labour rank and file seem uncomfortable with this, so that option is oot the windie. However they do seem to support the continuation of the council tax freeze. Oh, and lets not forget that Labour also (last I heard) remain committed to GARL, although Iain Gray seems to have been a bit quieter on this lately. Its a question worth asking indeed, how the hell are they paying for all this?

Another point worth mentioning is Labour, both at Westminster and up here, have for some time promoted the idea of the internal market in the NHS. With the Tories hell bent on dismantaling the NHS and exposing it to external markets, it's likely that people up here might become more jump whenever the word 'market' and 'NHS' appear together. given the SNP have for some time fought against the notion of letting the free amrket anywhaere near the NHS, this may be a domestic argument the SNP can win big on.

[xbl]

You know nothing of me or my knowledge, and infact, don't even know my political opinion other than that I detest the current administration.

Which is funny, because you claimed you had nothing against them originally.

Oh, Chris, if you're still interested, I found the source of that Ipsos-Mori poll I referred to:

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2702

Despite Labour’s lead, Alex Salmond remains the most popular party leader, with a net satisfaction rating (the percentage satisfied minus the percentage dissatisfied) of +17%, compared to +5% for Iain Gray. Scottish Conservative leader Annabel Goldie has a net satisfaction rating of +1% and Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Tavish Scott has a net satisfaction rating of -4%.

However, the majority of Scots support many of the Scottish Government’s key proposals in the budget. More than three quarters (78%) support the pledge to maintain the Council Tax freeze, while two thirds (66%) support the policy of maintaining NHS spending while reducing spending in other areas. In addition, 60% of Scots support freezing pay for public sector workers who earn £21,000 or more and 59% support abolishing prescription charges.

Mark Diffley, Research Director at Ipsos MORI said:

"As the Holyrood election looms ever closer, Labour has opened up a substantial lead in our latest poll. This represents a gradual shift in fortunes in the past 12 months which has seen the Labour's share of the vote increase from 32% to 41% since November 2009, while the SNP's share has fallen 36% to 31% over the same period.

Labour also seems to be the main beneficiary from a fall in the popularity of the Liberal Democrats, who now stand at 11%

, while the Conservatives stand at 13%. On a more positive note for the Government, the First Minister remains an asset to the party, with 54% expressing satisfaction in the job he is doing, higher than for the other party leaders. A week after the Finance Minister delivered the budget to Parliament, Scots are broadly supportive of the specific measures the Government is introducing, but divided over whether the budget is good one at a personal or national level."

[xbl]

... don't even know my political opinion other than that I detest the current administration.

Ah, memories...

Not at all. Funnily enough. I just happen to know a lot about this sector and can't stand people posting inaccuracies. I only criticise organisations when I believe they are in the wrong or are under performing. It just so happens in this instance it is the SNP.

...You have stated that I have an anti SNP agenda, which is not true and something you certainly don't have evidence to prove...

[barrysnotter]

Which is funny, because you claimed you had nothing against them originally.

I claimed I had nothing against the SNP as a party, but that as a Government they had failed miserably. Notice I said detest the administration, not the party. Nothing has changed, I have been entirely consistent with my opinions on here. Unless you can prove otherwise?

E.T.A

Those quotes above just prove what I have said. I detest this administration, not the party. Cheers for that.

[Ad Lib]

You know nothing of me or my knowledge

On the latter, it's hard to know much about nothing.

and infact, don't even know my political opinion other than that I detest the current administration.

On no rational basis.

How did you come to such a conclusion?

Your lack of reasoning and your hilariously crap attempts at creating a façade of reason.

I'm not surprised you came to that conclusion, because you regularly have absurd views.

No, all my views are perfectly reasonable.

Also, just because people have a different opinion from you, they are morons?

Not at all. I wouldn't dream of such an ad hominem on those who disagree but who actually articulate an alternative instead of irrational mouth-frothing.

Surely that isn't know politics works?

It's not. You were the one that suggested it.

(And I thought that's what you studied, Glasgow Uni must be going down hill).

I'm amazed you (apparently) got into it.

I'd love to see you write a dissertation on the subject. "The socio legal studies of political morons" could be the title. Be sure to include lots of empirical data from P&B. I'm sure you would get an A and as an added bonus it would make great bedtime reading.

Excellent idea. Bookmark it for 2 years' time.

[xbl]

I claimed I had nothing against the SNP as a party, but that as a Government they had failed miserably. Notice I said detest the administration, not the party. Nothing has changed, I have been entirely consistent with my opinions on here. Unless you can prove otherwise?

E.T.A

Those quotes above just prove what I have said. I detest this administration, not the party. Cheers for that.

Of course they do. You're such a bastion of political neutrality.

[xbl]

Also, just because people have a different opinion from you, they are morons? Surely that isn't know politics works?

Apparently it is:

The reason behind the 57% P&B vote is quite simple. The average football fan is pretty thick. End of.

[barrysnotter]

Of course they do. You're such a bastion of political neutrality.

Again, where have I claimed to be a neutral? You're quite good at making things up.

XBL, I thought you were better than this, too easy.

[Ad Lib]

Apparently it is:

:lol:

[xbl]

Again, where have I claimed to be a neutral? You're quite good at making things up.

XBL, I thought you were better than this, too easy.

The sky is blue. I am amazing for being able to point this out.

Another point worth mentioning is Labour, both at Westminster and up here, have for some time promoted the idea of the internal market in the NHS. With the Tories hell bent on dismantaling the NHS and exposing it to external markets, it's likely that people up here might become more jump whenever the word 'market' and 'NHS' appear together. given the SNP have for some time fought against the notion of letting the free amrket anywhaere near the NHS, this may be a domestic argument the SNP can win big on.

I don't actually know too much about this at all, and while I think it might indeed play well with the Scottish voter, the poll shows that there seems to be a good deal of support for some of the things proposed and done by the SNP. The council tax freeze seems to be popular, the supermarket tax seems to have some support, and so if it came down purely to policy, I think the SNP would do quite well. This gives me hope that they might get some support from more neutrally minded types of all types (for example, yourself as a centre left Labour sympathiser, and ICTChris, who has slightly right of centre views IIRC). However I do think (and we've agreed before) that there is a significant chunk of the Labour vote that wouldn't change their views even if Labour proposed a policy of the killing of the firstborns. In a way, as we've seen from Tony Blair, they actually managed to implement a version of that policy in Iraq, and still won the next election.

[Ad Lib]

I thought ICTChris took great pride in being "the most right wing poster on P&B"?

[barrysnotter]

The sky is blue. I am amazing for being able to point this out.

The is evidence to support such a theory though, that is the difference.

[renton]

The sky is blue. I am amazing for being able to point this out.

I don't actually know too much about this at all, and while I think it might indeed play well with the Scottish voter, the poll shows that there seems to be a good deal of support for some of the things proposed and done by the SNP. The council tax freeze seems to be popular, the supermarket tax seems to have some support, and so if it came down purely to policy, I think the SNP would do quite well. This gives me hope that they might get some support from more neutrally minded types of all types (for example, yourself as a centre left Labour sympathiser, and ICTChris, who has slightly right of centre views IIRC). However I do think (and we've agreed before) that there is a significant chunk of the Labour vote that wouldn't change their views even if Labour proposed a policy of the killing of the firstborns. In a way, as we've seen from Tony Blair, they actually managed to implement a version of that policy in Iraq, and still won the next election.

Firstly, regarding my 'role' on here as the labour sympathiser. I liken myself to the proper guitar based indie/rock fans who would hang out at the back of a Radiohead gigs during the Kid A era, hoping against hope that they might play something from The Bends.... and be perenially disappointed.

Occaisionally I'll get a "My god they played Creep during the encore" moment, such as when Ed Miliband admits that there is more to life than the bottom line, or the commitment to the Living age. In general though, dissapointment.

Anyway, I'm voting Green in the list.

As to the policies, Both sides are attacking from not to disimilar directions anyway. The SNP have the advantage of government with which to hone their message and policies, labour have the UK wide movement brain trust, hence why they picked up the Living wage up here and Andy Burnhams NCS idea.

As much as it may cause you to slowley simmer in anger on a moderate heat, it seems that Westminster will have a huge role in deicding what the issues at Holyrood are. Educaiton and the health service are likely to continue, or become, huge issues in 2011 down south, although both are devolved issues up here, the squeeze on public spending will make the task of both parties largely defining themselves in opposition to each other and the Tories at Westminster , how will they enact cuts or reforms to these two without getting the backlash. It seems likely that neither party can afford to move towards the Tory model of the less than national, not so much health service. And that there will be a continuing departure between Scotland and England here, will that play into SNP hands?

What's probable is that whatever commitments both parties make, they are likely to be enacted slowley or as skeletons. As for the Laobur vote, I still think it's quite soft, and I'm not quite as cynical regarding the electorates inbuilt labour tendencies.

As for Iraq and winning the next election, remember xbl, foreign policy doesn't win or lose elections, unless you get your arse kicked badly in a war, people generally care less about the plight of the average Iraqi and more about domestic tax plans.

[ICTChris]

I thought ICTChris took great pride in being "the most right wing poster on P&B"?

Yes, I am officially the most right-wing poster on P&B, according to that political compass tool.

I don't think I am right wing thoug. 'The most right-wing poster on P&B' makes me sound like I'll be voting BNP although I can assure you I won't be.

[Ad Lib]

Yes, I am officially the most right-wing poster on P&B, according to that political compass tool.

I don't think I am right wing though. 'The most right-wing poster on P&B' makes me sound like I'll be voting BNP although I can assure you I won't be.

As I always stress, though, the BNP (indeed, most of the so-called 'far right') aren't remotely right-wing.

[kiwififer]

The reason behind the 57% P&B vote is quite simple. The average football fan is pretty thick.

Bit of a sweeping statement there Iain, folk vote for all parties for various reasons and while there's some wallopers on here, there's also a few that have come to their political viewpoint after thinking long and hard about it.

Not all labour posters are pro labour 'because their da' voted' and not all nationalists post to shout 'freeeedum' etc.

[barrysnotter]

Bit of a sweeping statement there Iain,

:lol:

Last week I was getting chastised for spelling Ian Gray/Grey's name wrong, now I'm being accused of being the man himself. I'd rather be accused of being someone slightly more competent. If I had to choose, maybe Tony Blair or Alastair Campbell.

[Enigma]

:lol:

Last week I was getting chastised for spelling Ian Gray/Grey's name wrong, now I'm being accused of being the man himself. I'd rather be accused of being someone slightly more competent.

You wish, Wendy.