The Falkirk FC Thread

[gav-ffc]

Lewis Small, Conor McGrnadles and Thomas Grant have signed 3 year deals

[RobBairn1876]

Official website down again.

EDIT: No it isn't, back up. Was down earlier though.

Edited February 6, 2013 by RobBairn1876

[H_B]

Oh deary me H_B, having a little pop again about the McNamara thing after the horrendous mess you made of it last time around? That was squirmingly bad, but then again, you maybe didn't go back to check what you'd written. I think you'd rather that wasn't brought up.

Au contraire. I'm delighted you brought it up.

Please repeat here exactly what you said. I will enjoy pointing and laughing at you about it all over again .

What is clear to me is that Pressley can pick a player, but isn't great at building a team.

I assume now you really are ripping the pish.

Now, you've hung out some vague insinuation about Cowdenbeath's budget, in an attempt to tie it to me.

It's not a "vague insinuation". It's a post that was made by a Pressley fluffer on this board last season, as Mallo and I can both testify to. It's obvisouly understandable why the Pressley fluffers wish to pretend their embarrassing defences of the clown didn't happen, but there we are.

The only thing in question is which fluffer it was. You being foremost in that role, and being of that cadre most fond of posting complete and utter drivel, makes you the front runner.

Hmmmm..........given your last attempt at quoting a fact, (your Jackie Mac "first season" gem alluded to above),

I have no idea why you wish to pursue this line, other than that I was wrong about it being his first full season in charge, which is fine. Let's see shall we, rather than have the suspense of waiting for you to repeat it, what you actually said in relation to Dundee United's appointment.

Prepare the sutures.

"Funnily enough, if DUFC were really looking for a manager to bring through young players, I reckon they have just made the wrong choice. Jackie Mac has gotten one of the biggest four clubs in SFL1 punching at their weight via the tried and trusted method of blending three or four young players with a group of experienced ones at this level. Nothing new, nothing exciting, probably nothing more than their year to do well (at home, but maybe not away from home).

That's not to say Pressley would have been any great shakes, but I certainly don't think Jackie Mac has shown any great signs of being a managerial star in the making

."

[H_B]

Ignoring for a second your bizarre ennui about the tried and trusted, unimaginitive tactic of winning games and getting points, as opposed to, well, not winning games and not getting points, and ignoring again why spending your budget on young players is any better than spending your budget on experienced players, let's explore your claim about Partick Thistle being "three or four" young players with the rest being grizzled veterans.

We'll also gloss over the fact that Pressley has the biggest club in SFL1 punching at straw-weight level, but let's move on.

Perhaps the Partick Thistle squad who beat Pressley's Falkirk so convincingly, will be instructive?

Fox, - 25 - Starts at this level or higher - 82

Paton - 25 - Starts at this level or higher - > 100

Balatoni - 22 - Starts at this level or higher - 57

Archibald - 35 - Starts at this level or higher - > 100

Sinclair - 21 - Starts at this level or higher - 50

Murray - 34 - Starts at this level or higher - > 100

(Craigen ), - 21 - Starts at this level or higher - 1

Forbes - 23 - Starts at this level or higher - 44

Bannigan, - 20 - Starts at this level or higher - 48

Lawless - 21 - Starts at this level or higher - 23

(Welsh), - 22 - Starts at this level or higher - 25

Craig - 32 - Starts at this level or higher - > 100

(Doolan) - 26 - Starts at this level or higher - > 100

Erskine. - 26 - Starts at this level or higher - 73

Subs Not Used:

Daniels, - 19 - Starts at this level or higher - 0

McGuigan - 24 = Starts at this level or higher - 4

So 3 or 4 young players? Really?

Of the squad that played against us 9 of the 14, or 11 of the 16 including unused subs, have started under 100 games at this level or higher.

7 of the 14 or 8 of the 16 are aged 23 or under.

Edited February 6, 2013 by H_B

[Russ]

f**k Neilson get Pedro signed up again :wub:

[Hughsie]

Not to jump into this Duncan and H_B thing but I'd kill to have a team as experienced as that Thistle line-up.

We're playing 16 and 17 year olds for Christ's sake!

[Marshmallo]

Not to jump into this Duncan and H_B thing but I'd kill to have a team as experienced as that Thistle line-up.

We're playing 16 and 17 year olds for Christ's sake!

Thing is though, a lot of our young guys have experience at this level. I'm not sure on exact numebrs but Duffie or Murdoch for example will have played more First Division games than Lawless or Welsh. Worth remembering why we are playing with such a young team as well - budget reductions due to years of consistent failure on the park.

[Hughsie]

Not to jump into this Duncan and H_B thing but I'd kill to have a team as experienced as that Thistle line-up.

We're playing 16 and 17 year olds for Christ's sake!

Thing is though, a lot of our young guys have experience at this level. I'm not sure on exact numebrs but Duffie or Murdoch for example will have played more First Division games than Lawless or Welsh. Worth remembering why we are playing with such a young team as well - budget reductions due to years of consistent failure on the park.

Not disputing the last part and I wouldn't class Duffie and Murdoch as 'young guys', as you say, they are relatively experienced having each had at least one full season of playing regular first team football.

I think when you look through that Thistle team in general though they had castle more experience (and quality) in key areas. Archibald at the back who is vastly experience yet not over the hill a la Dods. Murray in midfield in comparison to our midfield pairing of a struggling Murdoch and Fulton who is playing his first full season as a regular starter - not to say that Thistle don't have rookies in there, difference is they have the right kind of experience with them to build a team on. Our board class guys at 21 as experiences pros.

[H_B]

Not to jump into this Duncan and H_B thing but I'd kill to have a team as experienced as that Thistle line-up.

We're playing 16 and 17 year olds for Christ's sake!

That's the thing though. Falkirk have rewritten the book on what constitutes a young team. And not in a good way. Partly through Pressley's buckets and buckets of utter fail and partly through the board's willingness to sacrifice any form of success for the odd player sale.

Partick Thistle are a young team. By any normal definition. Compare that Thistle line up to the one John Hughes won Division One with for example. There's no comparison.

The point is though, Jackie McNamara hasn't done what Hughes did then. Thistle aren't a squad of 300 game late 20s/early 30s hardened veterans.

It's 3 or 4 experienced players around a team of young players trying to find their level. Which is exactly what Falkirk should be aspiring to. And it's exactly what Dundee Utd have and will continue to have. They aren't building a "project"

The reason McNamara was appointed, and not Pressley, and the reason why he was absolutely the right choice out of those two, is that he is just much much better at his job. And that includes bringing young players on.

Edited February 6, 2013 by H_B

[Thundermonkey]

Hughes and Pressley are similar in that they can talk a good game. Therefore, failings on the pitch can be contributed to 'outside' influences. as long as they can continue to talk about playing young guys and playing in the correct manner they will get time from certain aspects of the support.

If they were bahaving like Lambie did then they would be universally hated and out of a job. It's a thoroughly modern approach to manangement and one in which cost cutting/imcompetent chairmen can hide behind.

Foe what it's worth, I'd say Pressley is 50/50 with his signings. Farid, Taylor, Higginbotham and Millar were good players no? It did take a year for the last two to get going but we miss them badly. All our young guys are going to end up as honest grafters in the Scobbie and Andy Lawrie mould. That's probably got a lot to do with having to play full seasons as 17 year olds. They can't all be David Beckhams.

[H_B]

If they were bahaving like Lambie did then they would be universally hated and out of a job. It's a thoroughly modern approach to manangement and one in which cost cutting/imcompetent chairmen can hide behind.

I think that's definitely true.

The fact Pressley has been able to deflect criticism from some by being able to work Microsoft Powerpoint says it all really.

That's probably got a lot to do with having to play full seasons as 17 year olds. They can't all be David Beckhams.

I think that (and I haven't seen several of the new new lot play) the difference now is that we are seeing a lot of players who would previously have been released without featuing in the first team play games.

You have to think the likes of Paul Sludden for example, were he to have been coming through at the club now rather than 4 years ago, would have played 20 or 30 games in the first team. He still wouldn't have been good enough - it's just that the reduction in quality of the first team means that wouldn't have been an issue.

[Larbert_Par]

Nah, that's Haworth you're thinking of, isn't it?

Yeah it was.

Leahy is still at the club AFAIK.

Apologies, chaps. I knew that one of your players you signed from down south in the summer had signed on at Spotland.

As you were.

[RobBairn1876]

H_B, for a Glasgow Uni supporter you certainly take a keen interest in Falkirk.

[Guest]

Oh deary me H_B, having a little pop again about the McNamara thing after the horrendous mess you made of it last time around? That was squirmingly bad, but then again, you maybe didn't go back to check what you'd written. I think you'd rather that wasn't brought up.

Au contraire. I'm delighted you brought it up.

Please repeat here exactly what you said. I will enjoy pointing and laughing at you about it all over again .

What is clear to me is that Pressley can pick a player, but isn't great at building a team.

I assume now you really are ripping the pish.

Now, you've hung out some vague insinuation about Cowdenbeath's budget, in an attempt to tie it to me.

It's not a "vague insinuation". It's a post that was made by a Pressley fluffer on this board last season, as Mallo and I can both testify to. It's obvisouly understandable why the Pressley fluffers wish to pretend their embarrassing defences of the clown didn't happen, but there we are.

The only thing in question is which fluffer it was. You being foremost in that role, and being of that cadre most fond of posting complete and utter drivel, makes you the front runner.

Hmmmm..........given your last attempt at quoting a fact, (your Jackie Mac "first season" gem alluded to above),

I have no idea why you wish to pursue this line, other than that I was wrong about it being his first full season in charge, which is fine. Let's see shall we, rather than have the suspense of waiting for you to repeat it, what you actually said in relation to Dundee United's appointment.

Prepare the sutures.

"Funnily enough, if DUFC were really looking for a manager to bring through young players, I reckon they have just made the wrong choice. Jackie Mac has gotten one of the biggest four clubs in SFL1 punching at their weight via the tried and trusted method of blending three or four young players with a group of experienced ones at this level. Nothing new, nothing exciting, probably nothing more than their year to do well (at home, but maybe not away from home).

That's not to say Pressley would have been any great shakes, but I certainly don't think Jackie Mac has shown any great signs of being a managerial star in the making."

This is pathetic. Read again what you have written. You have tried to associate me with a Cowdenbeath budget remark yes? It had and has nothing to do with me, that's the point. As I say you worded it as a question to give you a way out, so please take it.

You being wrong on a factual matter is fine........we all make mistakes. It was the fact that the whole fulcrum of your piece was based on the "fact" and you hung your contemptuously snide little remark of me "conveniently omitting" it as your coup de grace.

Look I don't know you, but you clearly have a love for semantics, and living in the subjective because the empirical and the objective are not particularly your thing. Even look at your Partick player stats........you had to make up a phrase that I didn't use nor allude to in order to try and spin up a point. Even the fact that you couldn't come up with a particularly young Partick side doesn't stop you from trying to slice and dice it into something that sounds vaguely forever young. You have launched yourself off into some sort of Google driven revenge because you got caught out. Let it go man. No one is really interested.

You started this, not me. You based your point on guff, and you got caught fair and square. Take it like a man and move on. I really am not in need of a stalker who likes the word "ennui" for all the wrong reasons.

Here's a fact for you.........Pressley will at some point, leave FFC. When that day comes, you can pop up and say "I told you so" to whoever cares to listen. I am sure they will share in your joyous rightness.

Yep, my Jackie Mac quote looks right. That's what I said. It's an opinion.............and I suspect it's nowhere near as funny as you need it to be in order to recover your dented pride.

[H_B]

Even look at your Partick player stats........you had to make up a phrase that I didn't use nor allude to in order to try and spin up a point.

Err, no I didn't.

Your opinion was based on a factual mistake. If you wish to correct it go right ahead. You are entitled to your own opinion - you are not entitled to your own facts.

Partick Thistle are not "three or four young players with a group of experienced ones at this level. "

They are 3 or 4 players experienced at this level with a group of young players around them. That's the point. And it completely changes the focus of your opinion as to why Dundee Utd, if they wish to develop young players, chose incorrectly between McNamara and Pressley.

By all means, feel free to believe they chose wrongly for a different reason, but let's end the pretence that Partick are a group of First Division ready veterans.

Even the fact that you couldn't come up with a particularly young Partick side

This is an extremely young Partick Thistle side. I'd go as far as to say that it will be the youngest side ever to win Division One, should they go on to do so. Certainly in recent memory. Can't think of any side of the top of my head as young.

I'm happy to be proven wrong if anyone has stats to the contrary.

Jackie McNamara deserves enormous credit for the job he has done at Partick Thistle this season. Melding a couple of veterans with some young players and relatively untried middles twenties players has been very very impressive to watch from afar.

Here's a fact for you.........Pressley will at some point, leave FFC. When that day comes, you can pop up and say "I told you so" .

I take no pleasure in being right about the misery Pressley has brought to the club. It's really really sad to see the damage he has done and continues to do.

If we could turn back the clock and have the board listen to the fans who told them to get rid of Pressley, the club would be in a much better state. That can't be changed now.

Edited February 6, 2013 by H_B

[ka202]

Gonnae stop arguing about pish each of you have said? Or claim to have said. It's clogging up this thread with meaningless shite!

[RobBairn1876]

I agree ka. ON topic, when is this Livi game getting played? The one that was postponed last month?

Edited February 6, 2013 by RobBairn1876

[Guest]

Sorry, but you are at it again. That Thistle team is exactly what I said it was......experienced pros, and younger players of whom few (if any) are at an age that ends in "teen". What i said is completely valid. You have a few players in their thirties, and a few in their mid 20s, who have been around in the SFL for a good while now. As I said, McNamara has them punching at their weight, no more than that. They have a tremendous home record, and a woeful away record.

I did like the stat amendment to "at this level or higher" in order to skew the numbers, and make several of them look less experienced than they really are. Statistics are whatever you choose to make them. The statistical data will tell you that the chances of you boarding a plane with a bomb on board are around three million to one. The odds of you getting on a plane with two bombs on board are three million times three million...........the odds are so extreme, that you could consider them near enough impossible. So statistically, when you board a plane, take a bomb with you. The chances of there being a second one are so remote, it has to be the sensible approach........statistically, you can't argue with them there facts. You can make statistics read whatever you want, and that's exactly what you have done.........but in so doing, you devalue your argument, because I and everyone else can see the fiddle factor that you have introduced into your stats.

You say I can have my own opinion, but I can't have my own facts. That is most certainly a lesson you have learned this past week, but even with that new found knowledge, your "fact" that Partick aren't a mixture of experienced players and three or four youngsters doesn't exactly stand up to any degree of scrutiny.

Whether or not they will be the youngest average age to win SFL1 is a mute point. It doesn't change the "fact" that they are a blend of experienced players and younger ones........as I said in my original post on another website that you chose to bring over here for the amusement of others. As to Jackie Mac deserving credit, I'm sure he does. If handed a brief that his first team must consist of 60% academy product with no more than 40% being sourced externally, and with no loan layers taking up shop window places, would Jacie be doing so well? It's a bit rhetorical, because we will never know. If DUFCs brief to Jackie Mac is to unload the expensive and valuable players, and flood the team with youth product, then yes, they may well have made the wrong choice. As I said, Pressley might be no great shakes, but in that respect, he is much more experienced.

[Guest]

The Livi game is on Tuesday Feb 19th with a 7.45pm kick off time.

[H_B]

Sorry, but you are at it again. That Thistle team is exactly what I said it was......experienced pros, and younger players of whom few (if any) are at an age that ends in "teen". What i said is completely valid.

My final word on this, as I agree that there is no point debating this in this thread. I can imagine it is not interesting.

On what basis do you stop being a young player when you are not a teenager?

I will say again, and leave it at that, I fully expect this to be the youngest team to win the First division (if they win the title) for 20 years and perhaps longer. It is a very very young side. And very inexperienced.

We've already established, through factual examination of the 16 that featured in the squad v Falkirk that what I say is true. You may not like it, but it is true nonetheless.

Falkirk playing a team of teenagers has not redefined what a young player is.

I did like the stat amendment to "at this level or higher" in order to skew the numbers,

No, that was in direct line with your claim. That they were a team of players experienced "at this level". I actually did you a favour by including games at a higher level also.

They are not a team of players experienced at this level. Unless you consider 50 odd games as being experienced I suppose.

Edited February 6, 2013 by H_B