The Falkirk FC Thread

[FFC 1876]

22 minutes ago, Harry Kinnear said:

The thing that I don’t get is there are loads of folk on here with agendas and whether they are right or wrong we all want the same thing, success for the Bairns. Why the f**k can we not just all work together and try and support our club. Think how we would all feel if the Bairns went out of existence, it’s absolutely unthinkable. After a bit of deliberation I’ve upped my monthly FSS contribution, I know to some this just can’t happen as they simply cannot afford it but in my eyes this makes them no less of a Bairns fan than me. You give what you can afford and that’s it. Wouldn’t it be great if we all just pulled in the same direction.

I think that's very much the message the new board are trying to get across. Having just listened to the new Falkirk Daft podcast and not really knowing any of the new board at all I thought both Keith and Kenny came across very well, both apologising for the poor wording in the last statement. Since the very first pledgings for a fan ownership, I've had someone completely different in my head as to who I thought was Kenny Jamieson so now I'm trying to rack my brain as to who the hell I've had him mixed up with for all this time.

For years we've moaned about the running/governance of our club and finally we've got the chance to change that by following the fan ownership model.

It's horrific timing given the last two years of covid and the current financial climate but we most likely won't get the opportunity ever again so it's one we really need to grasp with both hands. 

 

[FFC 1876]

@RC55 FFC another excellent and in this weeks case much needed episode to help clarify the goings on at our club. Thought you both handled the questioning perfectly. 

 

[Reggie Perrin]

Just been watching Match Time Revisited on ITV4, one of the matches from Jan 82 was a cup tie between Blackpool and QPR.

Some character called Stainrod just tried to score direct from the kick off.

Obviously a trial run.

[roman_bairn]

Excellent podcast but a very worrisome situation with the possibility of a cash flow crisis without urgent investment:

We typically budget around 1.75M with income of 1.3M projected with the shortfall of 450k covered by revenue from player sales income.

We set the same budget this season but there’s no opportunity for player sales income due to the latency from the closure and reopening of the academy. So we need to close that gap through fans income which  we are struggling to achieve. Indeed this season we further invested another 150k to get the players in we needed so the gap this season is 600k.

The Rawlins appear to have lost interest and are highly unlikely to increase investment. Indeed they are more likely to want to sell up in future.

We will talk to other parties re loans or investment but there’s nothing definitive at this stage to confirm that there is a safety net available.

That’s what I took from the excellent podcast but feel free to correct me.

For me the situation is pretty serious and the talk of scaremongering premature.

I’ll increase my investment too but I’ll not be led down a path of not questioning the board on their approach until such time as there’s financial stability. However I do get the impression that they are trying hard to get the right balance. We have the players on the park now but it’s at a heavy financial cost so we NEED to find a solution to cover that fast or we may not have a club if we are not careful…..

[Guest Caractacus Potts]

Just finished listening. Thought Kenny and Keith came across well. They explained their position clearly and apologised for how the statement came across which is what we all wanted. It certainly made a huge change to the beligerent and contemptible style of Deans and co. 

I still think there’s a lot the club can still do to try and entice fans to spend money without just asking for it. I also think there still should be some accountability on player signings to protect the club from long term deals or high wages on risky players but do understand that it’s not as easy to implement when trying to appease the manager too.

That said, I think they answered well and gave a very good insight to how things are at the club. Was really refreshing to hear and hope that as a result many more sign up to the FSS so that we can ensure things keep ticking over till the end of the season. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Caractacus Potts

[Shodwall cat]

Quite incredible for a league one club to have posted over a million quid loss last season and end up midtable. Crazy stuff.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, roman_bairn said:

Excellent podcast but a very worrisome situation with the possibility of a cash flow crisis without urgent investment:

We typically budget around 1.75M with income of 1.3M projected with the shortfall of 450k covered by revenue from player sales income.

We set the same budget this season but there’s no opportunity for player sales income due to the latency from the closure and reopening of the academy. So we need to close that gap through fans income which  we are struggling to achieve. Indeed this season we further invested another 150k to get the players in we needed so the gap this season is 600k.

The Rawlins appear to have lost interest and are highly unlikely to increase investment. Indeed they are more likely to want to sell up in future.

We will talk to other parties re loans or investment but there’s nothing definitive at this stage to confirm that there is a safety net available.

That’s what I took from the excellent podcast but feel free to correct me.

For me the situation is pretty serious and the talk of scaremongering premature.

I’ll increase my investment too but I’ll not be led down a path of not questioning the board on their approach until such time as there’s financial stability. However I do get the impression that they are trying hard to get the right balance. We have the players on the park now but it’s at a heavy financial cost so we NEED to find a solution to cover that fast or we may not have a club if we are not careful…..

We don’t typically set any budget at £1.75m, this is the first budget this board have set! Our projected income is not £1.3m this season it in on track to be £1.9m. It is our outgoings that are 400k more than that. 
Our first year down we turned over £2.1m, then COVID hit and turnover dropped to £1.1m. Last season it only jumped back up to £1.3m. 
The Board took the view that they couldn’t get back to £2.1m in one jump so set a budget of £1.75m. However with the quality of the 14 players left over and the first bunch of new players it only gave a squad of 20. They then took the decision to add 150k to the playing budget and upped the income the budget to £1.9m which they are on track to hit currently so the trading loss is not 600k it is 400k. If you wish to check what I have just posted go to around 1hr 25min in. After you posted this I listened to it again to check what I thought I heard first time around. 
On player sales they said they probably had some assets now but do not wish to sell as the squad needs to be strong. 

To me it was a frank and open interview. They explained the rational in the email, admitted the tone of the paragraph didn’t come over well and apologised. It tells everyone where we are and what we need to do if we want fan ownership.
 

I don’t see this really as a begging bowl. It is about creating an ownership model that safeguards the club long term for the supporters. It is up to the fans now. They either want that or too many fans don’t. Sadly it doesn’t come for free and if fans want it they need to join FSS and contribute. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Shodwall cat said:

Quite incredible for a league one club to have posted over a million quid loss last season and end up midtable. Crazy stuff.

I was amazed at the income line of £1.3m.   They seem to be actively addressing that. The player budget by the sounds probably wasn’t out of line from where it normally was last season. Suppose you had the like of Holt in there and pay offs to sheerin and Grainger mind you. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Back Post Misses

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Caractacus Potts said:

Just finished listening. Thought Kenny and Keith came across well. They explained their position clearly and apologised for how the statement came across which is what we all wanted. It certainly made a huge change to the beligerent and contemptible style of Deans and co. 

I still think there’s a lot the club can still do to try and entice fans to spend money without just asking for it. I also think there still should be some accountability on player signings to protect the club from long term deals or high wages on risky players but do understand that it’s not as easy to implement when trying to appease the manager too.

That said, I think they answered well and gave a very good insight to how things are at the club. Was really refreshing to hear and hope that as a result many more sign up to the FSS so that we can ensure things keep ticking over till the end of the season. 

What ideas do you have to get fans to spend? Why don’t you send an email to Jamie Swinney or call him to pass those on? 

[LatapyBairn.]

Quite incredible our turnover went from 2.1 million in our first season down in league one to 1.3 million (excluding the 1.1 million done in the covid season which was down for obvious reasons) What on earth went so wrong last year they some how managed to loose 800k in income?! 

[FalkirkBairn2021]

Thought the podcast was excellent.  Really well explained and an enjoyable listen. Our model isn't very complicated and it's not a dark art.

Not sure who they think we can sell though.  

[Proudtobeabairn]

Haven't listened yet but will do so later, sounds like a very open conversation which is great. 

For me, something we have to do straight away is introduce a £5 minimum or pay what you can option for FSS membership then market the f*ck out of it. That feels like a no brainer. 

Medium term we need to be offering tiers and benefits with the aim to have all fans paying the basic level and those who can afford it enticed to pay more. 

On pitch success will help and this season is now more important than ever. 

[Guest]

If the FSS started a separate scheme that put shares in the fans name but the FSS got proxy on those shares (like the Patron group) I would sign up to that too 

[LatapyBairn.]

Needs to be a massive drive from the FSS this month to at least try and hit these targets. I know it’s a lot to ask from people who are volunteers and are already doing a fantastic job but new ideas, more boots on the ground on match day, sign up forms left on every seat, maybe somebody out with a microphone at half time, cheaper subscriptions for students and pensioners, maybe a larger corporate type subscription designed at attracting fans running small business’s to join and become shareholders within the FSS ect. There must also be a few more fans out there who could afford to invest more and join the patrons group. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by LatapyBairn.

[Harry Kinnear]

31 minutes ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

Thought the podcast was excellent.  Really well explained and an enjoyable listen. Our model isn't very complicated and it's not a dark art.

Not sure who they think we can sell though.  

If they keep developing maybe Finn Yeates and Rumarn Burrell. Don’t know if that’s who they are thinking of but of the top of my head they are the ones that spring to mind.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

30 minutes ago, Proudtobeabairn said:

Haven't listened yet but will do so later, sounds like a very open conversation which is great. 

For me, something we have to do straight away is introduce a £5 minimum or pay what you can option for FSS membership then market the f*ck out of it. That feels like a no brainer. 

Medium term we need to be offering tiers and benefits with the aim to have all fans paying the basic level and those who can afford it enticed to pay more. 

On pitch success will help and this season is now more important than ever. 

Can they not offer a flexible monthly payment ? A lot of people these days have a fluctuating salary due to hours worked, overtime, bonus etc so perhaps this would help ? Ie. Somebody could maybe afford £5 this month but for example £15 next month.

This could surely be offered via a standing order payment ? 
 

Also, and apologies if this is already in place but how about a card payment option where fans can log in and contribute online on an ad-hoc basis ?

[LatapyBairn.]

23 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Can they not offer a flexible monthly payment ? A lot of people these days have a fluctuating salary due to hours worked, overtime, bonus etc so perhaps this would help ? Ie. Somebody could maybe afford £5 this month but for example £15 next month.

This could surely be offered via a standing order payment ? 
 

Also, and apologies if this is already in place but how about a card payment option where fans can log in and contribute online on an ad-hoc basis ?

Might be wrong but I’m pretty sure there is already a feature where fans can go in and make contributions without having to sign up to a fixed monthly direct debit. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by LatapyBairn.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

13 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Might be wrong but I’m pretty sure there is already a feature where fans can go in and make contributions without having to sign up to a fixed monthly direct debit. 

Yeah, just had a look they do accept card payments - perhaps publicise it more as I’ll certainly use that now.

[Dawson Park Boy]

Yes, very frank and open.

The one thing which I would have liked to know is - ‘when does the cash run out?’ Is it November or December?

With the best will in the world, FSS is NEVER going to be able to plug the gap.

So we’re back to soft loans or a new investor.

Wasn't clear as to whether the usual donors had been approached and, if so, how amenable they would be to help.

It just all seems to be so, so late in the day when the same information was available months ago.

Their analysis of the situation was good but I’m not filled with a lot of confidence that they’ve been taking the necessary action and speaking to the right people to solve the short term problem.

I think I can now see why the FD resigned.
No mention of the AGM- worrying - probably down to the Auditors needing comfort?

Fingers crossed.

[Roboccop]

1 hour ago, Proudtobeabairn said:For me, something we have to do straight away is introduce a £5 minimum or pay what you can option for FSS membership then market the f*ck out of it. That feels like a no brainer. 

Medium term we need to be offering tiers and benefits with the aim to have all fans paying the basic level and those who can afford it enticed to pay more.

there’s a reason why this hasn’t been introduced and it was to allow everyone contributing the minimum to have an equivalent vote in decisions. 
 

It might be possible to allow a lower monthly contribution (entry point to FSS) but those people would not have the same voting rights as others. Its much harder to  administrate also. And additionally there may be a number of contributors who drop their monthly payment to the lower level if that is introduced. 
 

It is being discussed as are other ideas. One major new initiative will be announced by FSS in the next week or so.