Aufc Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Reina has been shite this year. Cech, Hart, Chesney, De Gea, Krul, Vorm and so on ^^ correct order But but but but Hart is not even in the top five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Reina has been shite this year. Cech, Hart, Chesney, De Gea, Krul, Vorm and so on ^^ correct order It's a difficult thing to compare keepers. Hart will have benefited from having a mostly stable defence in front of him. Kompany has been immense for the season, and Lescott was a pretty able partner for him. There's no way of telling if Hart was dropped into the Wolves team whether he would keep as many clean sheets or not. Krul has made some absolutely fantastic saves, as has Vorm. I would say the list above is pretty comprehensive (although I'd probably add John Ruddy in there somewhere) - it's just the order that is difficult, and pretty subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Orton Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Hasn't he won the Fa Cup, Premier League and the Chsmpions league? So has phil neville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeefc1783 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Right, I'll ask you again, are you going to retract your statement that a player can't be that good if "he doesn't play every week"? Or are you still saying Xavi must not be that good? Which is it? Are there many young player who play more than 23 games for Man City? So he doesn't trust Balotelli because he played Tevez for a few games You couldn't make it up, you both despise Balotelli and will say anything to criticise him. It's patently obvious. I don't despise balotelli just don't get the hype You clearly think otherwise. Ok I will retract it and say if Mancini rates balotelli so highly why does he play less than 50% of games. Oh wait I must be saying xavi is shite as he is only selected 90 odd percent of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 There's no way of telling if Hart was dropped into the Wolves team whether he would keep as many clean sheets or not. Krul has made some absolutely fantastic saves, as has Vorm. I would say the list above is pretty comprehensive (although I'd probably add John Ruddy in there somewhere) - it's just the order that is difficult, and pretty subjective. Yeah, if only Hart had played for someone utterly shite, like, oh I don't know, Birmingham, and excelled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I never once said Balotelli was "shit", nor did I criticise him in anyway. Simply played devils advocate in your conversation with the other geezer. I am not saying Mancini does not trsut him or dislike him as a player. However, you are making it out as if Mancini absolutely loves him and trusts him completely, which I do not think is true. I think he does, actually. He puts up with a helluva lot and their relationship has even been compared to husband and wife (as well as father and son) But but but but Hart is not even in the top five. He isn't. And you can try and patronise if you want but you haven't provided any evidence as to why it's such a ridiculous view to have - cause it isn't. I'm certainly not the only person who doesn't think Hart is in the top 5 keepers in the Premiership - he really isn't that good. Maybe you should watch the Napoli game again, or the Croatia game again. Extremely basic errors, and he made at least 2 in both games! I don't despise balotelli just don't get the hype You clearly think otherwise. Er, if you don't despise him why are you criticising him for: 1) Not starting ahead of Tevez and Aguero - two outstanding players. 2) Coming off the bench minutes after Dzeko. If you didn't despise him you wouldn't go to all the trouble to make up metrics to criticise him. Here's a metric that actually matters: In minutes to games he is fourth in the whole Premier League, ahead of Rooney, ahead of RvP and ahead of Aguero. Think that matters more than who was brought off the bench first. Ok I will retract it and say if Mancini rates balotelli so highly why does he play less than 50% of games. Oh wait I must be saying xavi is shite as he is only selected 90 odd percent of the time. Where is your actual evidence for this? I take it you have factored games he was injured/suspended for in the calculation? Otherwise it would be utterly meaningless, go back and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 He isn't. And you can try and patronise if you want but you haven't provided any evidence as to why it's such a ridiculous view to have - cause it isn't. I'm certainly not the only person who doesn't think Hart is in the top 5 keepers in the Premiership - he really isn't that good. Maybe you should watch the Napoli game again, or the Croatia game again. Extremely basic errors, and he made at least 2 in both games! He had the most clean sheets in the league this season, and earlier on in this thread (or another) you admitted that City doesn't have a fantastic defence. Is it luck? I genuinely think you must be on the wind-up if you don't think he is not in the top five in the EPL currently. I have never once said he was the best, I believe Cech is way ahead of him at the moment. However, he has got years ahead of him, and as I'm sure you know, goalkeepers tend to peak once they reach their later 20s/early 30s. I'd say the list should be - Cech Hart Reina Chesney De Gea (after his early wobbles, obviously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 He had the most clean sheets in the league this season, and earlier on in this thread (or another) you admitted that City doesn't have a fantastic defence. Is it luck? I genuinely think you must be on the wind-up if you don't think he is not in the top five in the EPL currently. I have never once said he was the best, I believe Cech is way ahead of him at the moment. However, he has got years ahead of him, and as I'm sure you know, goalkeepers tend to peak once they reach their later 20s/early 30s. I'd say the list should be - Cech Hart Reina Chesney De Gea (after his early wobbles, obviously) That isn't evidence he is top 5 in the Premiership, their defence is probably the best in the league. In fact it is the best in the league. So it's not really surprising that they have kept the most clean sheets, they are the best team with the best defence. You can "genuinely" think whatever you want, being on the wind up would be saying he is a League One goalkeeper, not that he isn't in the top 5 in the Premiership. It's just a mechanism to rubbish a view you don't yourself hold but don't want to form a coherent argument against. You don't think Wayne Rooney is the greatest British player of all time? You must be on the wind up llolllzzz. I've said he was like David James - and he is. As for that list, I genuinely think you are on the wind up not having Krul in there - or even De Gea ahead of Reina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 That isn't evidence he is top 5 in the Premiership, their defence is probably the best in the league. In fact it is the best in the league. So it's not really surprising that they have kept the most clean sheets, they are the best team with the best defence. You can "genuinely" think whatever you want, being on the wind up would be saying he is a League One goalkeeper, not that he isn't in the top 5 in the Premiership. It's just a mechanism to rubbish a view you don't yourself hold but don't want to form a coherent argument against. You don't think Wayne Rooney is the greatest British player of all time? You must be on the wind up llolllzzz. I've said he was like David James - and he is. As for that list, I genuinely think you are won the wind up not having Krul in there - or even De Gea ahead of Reina. Wriggle wriggle wriggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Excellent back four? So, we go from this, just yesterday, to this. That isn't evidence he is top 5 in the Premiership, their defence is probably the best in the league. In fact it is the best in the league. So it's not really surprising that they have kept the most clean sheets, they are the best team with the best defence. What is it, Supras? Are they the best, or are they just OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 So, we go from this, just yesterday, to this. What is it, Supras? Are they the best, or are they just OK? The best. I never said they weren't. I just my shtick to say excellent back four as a question. The likes of Lescott etc. are never going be excellent, in any capacity, but in terms of the Premiership it is the best defence. Badly exposed in Europe, but in the Premiership it is the best defence - individually and statistically. Chelsea have an utterly shit defence these days, Arsenals is a lot better than most people give it credit for but Clichy > Gibbs and Man Utds is creaking plus they have no decent right back. Liverpools is better than the position would indicate, but are also lacking a decent right back. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufc Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The best. I never said they weren't. I just my shtick to say excellent back four as a question. The likes of Lescott etc. are never going be excellent, in any capacity, but in terms of the Premiership it is the best defence. Badly exposed in Europe, but in the Premiership it is the best defence - individually and statistically. Chelsea have an utterly shit defence these days, Arsenals is a lot better than most people give it credit for but Clichy > Gibbs and Man Utds is creaking plus they have no decent right back. Liverpools is better than the position would indicate, but are also lacking a decent right back. HTH. Clichy is actually an awful defender. He gets caught out of position so much. However, his pace usually covers him. You asked for evidence? Did adam not provide it by saying he had the most clean sheets? What is your evidence to suggest hart is not in the top five? Due to a couple of errors? Every goalie and player makes mistakes. It is human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I've said he was like David James - and he is. Hmmm... this sounds familiar... "Scholes is complete pish, and always has been.He is a pub team player, a Neil Lennon if you will." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Clichy is actually an awful defender. He gets caught out of position so much. However, his pace usually covers him. You asked for evidence? Did adam not provide it by saying he had the most clean sheets? What is your evidence to suggest hart is not in the top five? Due to a couple of errors? Every goalie and player makes mistakes. It is human nature. I think Clichy is a bit of a strange one, he started off brilliantly at Arsenal, faded badly but has done well for City. Given Evra has taken a form break for, what, 2 years, Clichy has stepped up to be the one of the, and possibly the, best left back in the league. It's not a position where there is an abundance of excellent players anywhere in the world to be honest (and most of the good ones are French). It doesn't, in itself, prove he is in the top 5. That's my point. This is a subjective discussion for the most part. I contend that Hart makes more frequent and worse errors than other keepers, and given his propensity to make another howler if he has already made one you have to question his mentality too. Errors seem to affect him, and he seems to make one another major during the same game. The two examples I have used demonstrate this perfectly. Hmmm... this sounds familiar... "Scholes is complete pish, and always has been.He is a pub team player, a Neil Lennon if you will." Is this a quote or isn't it? They look similar, but you can't blame Scholes for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Is this a quote or isn't it? Oh yes, it is indeed a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Oh yes, it is indeed a quote. Then where is the quote marks and the timing, post number and all that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Then where is the quote marks and the timing, post number and all that? I was being nice. I didn't want to point more people towards your epic fail in the Gold Forum Beckham thread. Credit to you for never deleting that Scholes post though - many would have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I was being nice. I didn't want to point more people towards your epic fail in the Gold Forum Beckham thread. Credit to you for never deleting that Scholes post though - many would have! Some kid set fires. Some post shit on internet forums. I did both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeefc1783 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I think Clichy is a bit of a strange one, he started off brilliantly at Arsenal, faded badly but has done well for City. Given Evra has taken a form break for, what, 2 years, Clichy has stepped up to be the one of the, and possibly the, best left back in the league. It's not a position where there is an abundance of excellent players anywhere in the world to be honest (and most of the good ones are French). Ashley cole for me is the best left back in premier league by a country mile. Has had a decent season in a poor Chelsea Still a p***k though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calum_gers Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Manchester City coach Roberto Mancini has downplayed rumors he is interested in signing AC Milan striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Mancini met with Milan Vice President Adriano Galliani at the Italian club's headquarters on Monday, but the former Inter Milan coach says it was simply a courtesy visit. Mancini says, "Milan fans can stay calm" but added that "Ibrahimovic is a great champion." The two of them together. I couldn't handle it...We would need a sub-forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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