Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Hayseed]

Thomo has his say

Either Rangers’ administrators Duff & Phelps have extraordinary chutzpah or they are men in the final stages of desperation.

Announcing the US trucking magnate Bill Miller as the bloke-most-likely to buy Rangers FC, they refused to take questions at what was absurdly described as a press conference.

Nor did they mention at any stage in this, the three really key things which have to be mentioned in connection with owning this club.

Not one mention of assured creditor Craig Whyte who, he tells me, wants, £30m. No mention either for the ticket company Ticketus who may require around £27m.

And the small matter of HMRC the taxman, who could end up due around £75m if the club loses a major tax hearing due any day now.

So Rangers fans – rightly – will need a lot of convincing on all of this.

Other fans will be outraged. Because what they’re attempting to pull off here is a huge tax avoidance and debt avoidance plan from the club already notorious for both.

It boils to this. D&P say: “Mr Miller’s proposal involves the use of a specially created newco (new company) in addition to the retention of the Rangers Football Club plc. The business and assets he proposes to purchase will be sheltered in a newco and returned to the plc once the plc has been ‘cleaned up’.”

Yeah – well they may use inverted comas for ‘cleaned up’. What does it mean? Who by? When? Who pays all these vast debts the plc could owe? What will Whyte, Ticketus and HMRC (taxman) say?

None of it answered.

Would you buy into any of this?

Non Rangers fans sense a massive sell out in which the plc will end up liquidated, the taxpayer shafted, RFC in the Premier League with few big punishments and any kind of sporting morality out the window.

Unlike other clubs who paid their tax, balanced their books – and got relegated.

That said, even Rangers look like being banned from Europe for a long time – several seasons. Many players will thus soon leave. They are banned (pending appeal) from buying new players for a season. Penalties for sure, but if they do manage to pull this off, nothing like the penalties many feel should be imposed.

[DavieCFC]

Nope, he's got you bang to rights.

Fans of the other clubs want Rangers to start from the bottom, because that's what would happen to any of our clubs in that situation.

Fans of Celtic just want a lame duck Rangers in the SPL so that they can thump them.

Im not going to deny that, im sure fans of other SPL clubs wouldnt mind that either Could be wrong though). Im cool if they start in Div 3 too, the only thing i wanted to put across is that if they do get put back in the SPL, they get sanctioned pretty heftily, they deserve nothing less. For them to get off scot free and re-emmited would be absolutly unacceptable to any fan outwith rangers.

as for the whole titles debate, put me in the Quality > Quantity camp, im not all that bothered about how many they have one in a leagues that prodominatly been a 2 horse race. but you shouldnt be allowed to keep accolades that you've won when you've broke the rules in order to do so.

I hope that clears things up.

Im getting abit bored with it all now tbh.

[The OP]

Nope, he's got you bang to rights.

Fans of the other clubs want Rangers to start from the bottom, because that's what would happen to any of our clubs in that situation.

Fans of Celtic just want a lame duck Rangers in the SPL so that they can thump them.

Speaking as a fan of Celtic, they should start again from the bottom, as should happen to any club in that situation.

[ray_of_licht]

Remember all that stuff about HMRC not doing a deal? If David Whitehouse is to be believed then they may have done

HMRC & Ticketus are both creditors of the company and the creditors have voted in favour of the proposals which enable us to do deal. they will receive the benefit pro rata with other creditors of the pool of funds which have been created for the creditors generally.

ETA - taken from Alastair Lamont's tweets

Edited May 3, 2012 by ray_of_licht

[Napolean Dynamite]

A vile and grotesque episode in Scotland's football history.

[WaffenThinMint]

That would be a breach of ethics which could see them in big schtuck.

There wouldn't be a single administrator in business left were that the case.

Like most of the Financial Service Authority's "Principles and Practices", the platitudes are one thing, obeying them is quite another, and so long as you can make up a convincing enough case that you were doing so in good faith it's damn hard to nail them, the old "I misinterpreted the rules!" line.

Remember all that stuff about HMRC not doing a deal? If David Whitehouse is to be believed then they may have done

If you are going to "quote", will you please post a reference as to where your information is coming from?

Edited May 3, 2012 by WaffenThinMint

[kildog]

For those asking how Millar makes money here goes. For £11m, he gets all the assets - stadium, players the lot. He has none of the debt so doesn't care about that.

This stuff about the club's history matters not a jot to him. He makes it clear supporters either had "new" Rangers or no Rangers. But new Rangers will have all the principles and beliefs of the old Rangers. Now some diehards might walk away but most will reckon that a team playing at Ibrox in blue is worth watching so they will sign up and pick up from where they left off.

After a couple of years of trimming (having taken players over on agreed contacts until they run down to enforce the feeling of continuity), Rangers will be ready to return to European football. Bill makes it clear that to be successful there, they need to raise money so he floats the club and gives dad's the chance to buy into this now debt free concern. The club is being given back to its people. Brian Millar takes out a hefty wedge which nobody begrudges (see Fergus McCann) and sails off into the sunset.

Buying a debt free Rangers for £11m starts to look like a bargain because the football authorities will have taken the Rangers cock (and shilling). Other creditors will be fucked and overlooked in the midst of the euphoria at saving Rangers. Chick will say this is what he knew all along but couldn't say and many people on here will be doing something else in a saturday (but nobody will care because the next generation will soon fill the space)

Shite eh?

[Baxter Parp]

Remember all that stuff about HMRC not doing a deal? If David Whitehouse is to be believed then they may have done

Buh?

"Joint administrator Paul Clark tells BBC Scotland that discussions with creditors will continue and that it could be "some months" before any offer is made."

Today at 15:38

Edited May 3, 2012 by Baxter Parp

[Mark Connolly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXYb-gL8-HM

[Desert Nomad]

A few Tweets from BBC Alistair Lamont:

Alasdair Lamont ‏ @BBCAlLamont

David Whitehouse: "We've already been in consultation with largest creditor, HMRC and they're fully aware of and are supportive of the bid.

DW: HMRC & Ticketus are both creditors of the company and the creditors have voted in favour of the proposals which enable us to do deal

DW: They will receive the benefit pro rata with other creditors of the pool of funds which have been created for the creditors generally.

DW: That pool of funds will come from the proceeds of the litigation that have been brought..

.. the existing assets such as they are and the proceeds of the sale and purchase agreement which we are commencing now with Bill Miller."

Edited May 3, 2012 by Desert Nomad

[Sergeant Wilson]

This is not a liquidation route!

Equally

The one on the left is not Stan Laurel in drag!...........Some people seem easier to convince though.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Sergeant Wilson

[HTG]

Presumably HMRC will deal on the £15m as their return. They may already have concluded that the EBT case will fall because there is no company to pursue. Relatively speaking, "almost scott free" springs to mind.

[pozbaird]

That would be a breach of ethics which could see them in big schtuck.

Did you really just use the word 'ethics' in relation to Haudit & Daudit!?

Shhurely shhum mishtake Mish Munnypenny.

OK, so I've been out all day and missed the fun - I'm guessing Windy Miller has been granted preferred bidder status, and is paying half a mil' to look over the books. Meanwhile, the Blue Knights are well cheesed off, with the exception of Brian Kennedy, who is breathing a huge sigh of relief, and is thinking 'thank fcuk for that'. Windy Miller appears to care not a jot about RFC 1872 the footballing club with a long history of trophies and success (not all of it bought by cheating on a grand scale). He appears to be Whyte MkII, but with a different accent, and a penchant for casual polo shirts as opposed to cheap Ralph Slater grey shiny suits. The Bears don't have a clue what to think - because they were pinning their faint hopes on Murray (who in contrast to Windy Miller) at least does care about RFC 1872 the footballing club with a long history of trophies and success (not all of it bought by cheating on a grand scale).

The doubt remains that the SPL board have already made a nod and a wink to Haudit & Daudit that a newco Rangers would be admitted to the SPL faster than Hibs fire managers, so us diddy fans remain on edge that the custodians of our game are about to flush any remaining shred of sporting integrity and decency right down the toilet pan. All for the sake of Rupert Murdoch's TV station, and basically because 'it's Rangers', and Rangers are a 'special case' where the big house must stay open, and they are the people.

None of us on here can really figure it out - in regard to Windy Miller's ability to actually pull off a stunt so cunning that it would make the FC AirdrieBank debacle miniscule in comparison. We can't figure out if he can actually get away with it, legally - and we can't figure out where the SFA or UEFA come into it. We can't figure out where the BTC and EBTs come into it, so basically we're all as fcuked in the brain as we were this time yesterday.

Have I missed anything?

Edited May 3, 2012 by pozbaird

[Baxter Parp]

Presumably HMRC will deal on the £15m as their return. They may already have concluded that the EBT case will fall because there is no company to pursue. Relatively speaking, "almost scott free" springs to mind.

HMRC don't move that fast, they won't even have considered the implications of Miller's bid yet since it hasn't happened yet.

[Fife Saint]

Remember all that stuff about HMRC not doing a deal? If David Whitehouse is to be believed then they may have done

Where was that cut from?

[ray_of_licht]

If you are going to "quote", will you please post a reference as to where your information is coming from?

Apologies. I thought I'd put Alistair Lamont's twitter name in the quote box.

[Baxter Parp]

We're getting a ton of positive spin from one side and very little from the other. I smell shite.

[Mark Connolly]

So to clarify:

The following people have NOT been shafted - .

That is all.

[Owsley]

Im getting a sore head wading through all of this. the different strands and dirty dealings committeed by this lot are utterly breathtaking. And as I have a pathological hatred of the OF, I thought nothing from them would surprise me, but Jeezo, this has, on a daily basis.

I hear you, brother.

[Fife Saint]

As an aside, Lennon given 3 match suspension after Scottish Cup episode. Good day for a whitewash. What a fucking sham.