Monkey Tennis Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I get very annoyed by the sub-text to so much coverage which suggests that the mature, balanced view recognises the 'value' a vibrant Rangers bring to the Scottish game, while the view that wants to see them hammered is hysterical, groundless, simplistic and easily dismissed. I'd contend that the view about preserving their status is the simplistic one. It envisages a game that can only be dominated by two huge clubs, when of course we know that alternatives not only exist, but for many of us are much more attractive. HJ talks a lot of rational stuff on here. Even No8 and TSAR make useful contributions to the debate, although they know they won't find a lot of support. What Traynor is allowed to do though is reach far more people than anyone on here can, without having to argue or justify his drivel. The Rangers situation is complex on so many levels - moral, sporting and legal. The childish stance is the one that says we have to do what we can to accommodate them and that no punishment should really amount to a punishment at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I get very annoyed by the sub-text to so much coverage which suggests that the mature, balanced view recognises the 'value' a vibrant Rangers bring to the Scottish game, while the view that wants to see them hammered is hysterical, groundless, simplistic and easily dismissed. I'd contend that the view about preserving their status is the simplistic one. It envisages a game that can only be dominated by two huge clubs, when of course we know that alternatives not only exist, but for many of us are much more attractive. HJ talks a lot of rational stuff on here. Even No8 and TSAR make useful contributions to the debate, although they know they won't find a lot of support. What Traynor is allowed to do though is reach far more people than anyone on here can, without having to argue or justify his drivel. The Rangers situation is complex on so many levels - moral, sporting and legal. The childish stance is the one that says we have to do what we can to accommodate them and that no punishment should really amount to a punishment at all. Good morning, Lord Carloway Your Honour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Good morning, Lord Carloway Your Honour. 'kay 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Will they go down the "Club X" route again? There are a few clubs who could potentially find themselves in a different league to the one they expected to be in. It's one thing budgeting and building a team for a promotion push. It's another entirely to prepare to try to avoid relegation. When are they to be informed? I really hope they don't call it Club X again. If they do, you just know it will be part of some "hilarious" joke Only An Excuse will do at Hogmaney with Frank McAvennie thinking it's something to do with strippers or lapdancers c/o the limited script talent of that Potatofaced Fanny Spangle Jonathan Watson. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Buddie Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Apart from the 10-point deduction and a £100k fine (which I assume they haven't paid!!) RFC haven't actually had any penalties/sanctions applied yet, but there is a whole shitstorm of charges (allegedly) to be answered and on which to be sentenced if guilty, most juicily, the twin contracts. Given the amount of noise with the few things proven so far, I am heartily looking forward to the tsunami when they start getting stripped of titles, and that's just the first step. Edited June 5, 2012 by Happy Buddie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Will they go down the "Club X" route again? There are a few clubs who could potentially find themselves in a different league to the one they expected to be in. It's one thing budgeting and building a team for a promotion push. It's another entirely to prepare to try to avoid relegation. When are they to be informed? Unless the SFA process has resolved itself within the next fortnight and in favour of expulsion or suspension, the fixture list will be issued as normal. In factual terms Rangers are in administration, so no different to other sides previously in administration. If they have been expelled or suspended and the process has resolved itself, and assuming a hastily-arranged confirmation of Dundee's ascension, they'd be on the fixture list instead. Difficult as it may be, clubs lifted-up divisions in the space of weeks when Livingston were demoted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Traynor really is a despicable chap. I resent that someone - the coiner of 'succulent lamb', no less - who has been so utterly discredited, still has a platform to promote his self serving agenda to the masses. fairly certain speirs coined succulent lamb. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wokcomble Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I was at that game and we had around 1200-1500 at it!!!! yeah, the buns don't like admitting their low crowds in the early 1980s. I've got footage of the Morton game at Ibrox and the crowd is displayed as 5000. I seem to remember Rangers v East Stirlingshire at Ibrox and a crowd of 1500. the 'loyal' buns seem to forget this, or erase it from their history (which will hopefully be in the bin some time soon). ...but a bit of advice anyway for the buns (if their team is lucky enough to get admitted into the SFL structure) - short-crust bridies are cr*p, always get the flacky ones as they are so much better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Apart from the 10-point deduction and a £100k fine (which I assume they haven't paid!!) RFC haven't actually had any penalties/sanctions applied yet, but there is a whole shitstorm of charges (allegedly) to be answered and on which to be sentenced if guilty, most juicily, the twin contracts. Given the amount of noise with the few things proven so far, I am heartily looking forward to the tsunami when they start getting stripped of titles, and that's just the first step. Tbf, they're also currently prevented from registering new players, e.g. Cousin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Will they go down the "Club X" route again? There are a few clubs who could potentially find themselves in a different league to the one they expected to be in. It's one thing budgeting and building a team for a promotion push. It's another entirely to prepare to try to avoid relegation. When are they to be informed? There's no fear of a "Club X" scenario again. Rangers will be in that fixture list, right reason or none. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) fairly certain speirs coined succulent lamb. I agree with the OP completly. Look below though? I thought it was "Odious Creep"? Edited June 5, 2012 by kiddy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 fairly certain speirs coined succulent lamb. I didn't think so, but someone can no doubt confirm. Spiers was certainly present when said lamb got served, but I was pretty sure the article in question was penned by Traynor. I might be wrong though - it's happened at leat twice before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Buddie Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 fairly certain speirs coined succulent lamb. No, It was Traynor. Although Speirs was also at the dinner. The original article is available somewhere, maybe on RTC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Traynor definitely wrote the article. It has been linked on this thread a couple of times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) fairly certain speirs coined succulent lamb. No he didn't - he's been trying to claim the credit for it becoming an internet meme ever since to try and regain some cred. He was actually one of the very arselickers at that infamous dinner where James Traynor damned himself for all time with his sycophantic phrase over what later reports said was a typically bland hotel dinner with passable house wines and not the top-of-the-range vintage vinos as Traynor's legend would have it. It was after Speirs began his backtracking that Traynor started calling him "Odious Creep". Edited June 5, 2012 by WaffenThinMint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 fairly certain speirs coined succulent lamb. Wrong. The phrase dates from an article by Jim Traynor providing massive arslikhan to SDM in 1998, in the Succulent Ranger. It's easy enough to find. Spiers subsequently lifted the phrase from the article and used it as a mild piss take of sycophantic pro-Rangers journalism. Given the low level spat between the two, it was a joke that hasn't gone down well at all with the fat, egomaniacal, cantankerous "Airdrie supporter", and the two have been having bitchy little snipes at one another ever since. Spiers actually has a brain though, so is winning. If Rangers are really going to sink with the loss of all hands then the little bottom-feeding tugboat that bobs along in the wake of the once great ship will be pulled down in the vortex, taking the careers of Traynor, Young, Dodds et al with them. No Old Firm= instant obscurity for these lazy, press-release regurgitating clowns, that's why they are writing against the idea of Rangers disappearing so bitterly. They know that if Rangers are finished, they become instantly unemployable overnight. Gerry McNee disappeared without a trace despite having once been one of Scotland's most objectionable football commentating buffoons in the Express and on telly. The same fate awaits these guys, hopefully very soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 oteDaily Record – November 19, 1998 SECRET FEAR THAT DRIVES ME TO WIN 10 IN A ROW: Rangers chairman David Murray opens up on the highs and lows of his decade in charge of Rangers and promises that the best is still to come Exclusive James Traynor RANGERS owner David Murray doesn't often allow his true feelings to surface, but currently he is finding it difficult to disguise a pain which has been gnawing away inside since the end of last season. After a period of almost total dominance of Scottish football during which Rangers racked up 17 trophies the club met with failure. Celtic won the championship and the League Cup and Hearts beat Rangers in the Tennents Scottish Cup final, leaving Murray with nothing to show for a massive investment in time and money. Even now he winces when he thinks of that season, but it is the vivid memory, and the pain of defeat with which he now suffers, that combine to drive him on. Last night as he looked back on a decade as Rangers' owner – come this Sunday, the 22nd, it will be 10 years since he paid Lawrence Marlborough £6 million for the club – Murray's desire to avoid the miseries of another barren season could not be disputed. To hear him speak was to listen to a man who believes himself to be charged with some kind of great and mighty mission. Murray, who chose to talk only to the Record about his dreams and ambitions for Rangers, said: "No one should doubt that Rangers are the biggest club in the country, but I know that talk is cheap in this business and that we will have to prove just how big we are. "That doesn't really bother me because as long as I am able to influence this club we will be the biggest and we will be the best. "I have spent 10 years of my life, and I know that sometimes I gave up too much of myself to Rangers, but I am not about to give up now. "Neither am I willing to stand aside and allow another club to overtake Rangers. The failure of last season hurt me a lot and that pain was something I didn't need nor want. "It is also a pain which I never want to suffer again, but by God that sort of thing just makes me even more determined to succeed. I am still as driven, still as enthusiastic and I will welcome the challenge of anyone out there." Murray was referring not only to the Kenny Dalglish/Jim Kerr consortium who are stalking Celtic, but also the as yet uncovered groups who are bound to make bids to buy out Fergus McCann. If the past 10 years have taught Murray, who is one of Britain's wealthiest individuals, anything it is how to win and he believes Rangers will continue to grow and prosper. "I look upon these last 10 years as a having been a great era, but it is over and Rangers are about to head on into a new era," he said over a glass of the finest red. He was about to take in another mouthful of the most succulent lamb – anyone who knows Murray shouldn't be surprised to learn he is a full-blooded, unashamed red meat eater – when he put down his knife and fork. It was like a statement of intent and looking directly across the table to make sure I hadn't yet succumbed to the wine, he said: "Bring on the next 10 years, there's more to come for Rangers. "Understand that I care passionately about what I'm doing with Rangers and believe that in 10 years time we will still be setting the pace. "Too many of us have put too much into this club and we won't let someone come along and take it all away. "What I'm saying here is that no matter who buys Celtic from Fergus, they will need to have the deepest of pockets imaginable. "The fresh challenge would be good for the Scottish game and lift the profile, but Celtic's new owners had better be prepared to spend. "In the past, Celtic's people maybe just haven't fancied trying to take Rangers on financially, but if I have to go in deeper to keep my club up there then I will. I have done it too many times to be frightened now." From anyone else such talk could be dismissed as no more than empty rhetoric, but with Murray you just feel it is more than bluster and besides, he does have a track record as a spender. There have been times in his 10 years when he has taken Rangers somewhere between £15m and £20m into debt and he knows that if this season goes belly up like the last one he could be looking at a potential debt of £20m. However, having taken the value of Rangers from £6m to approximately £186m in 10 years he knows how far he can gamble in pursuit of success. This season alone he has allowed his new manager Dick Advocaat to spend almost £30m, but he refuses to lose any sleep over it. He said: "I don't because I consider spending as much as £5million on someone like Andrei Kanchelskis as a necessity. If a club like ours doesn't do that then we fall by the wayside. "Look, I have many other businesses so I could find many other things to worry about, but I love sport and I want Rangers to be successful. I know this won't be accepted by some people but this isn't about making money. "£56m has been invested in the stadium and in my time £200m has been turned over and after interest our trading profit is minimal. Perhaps as much as £60m has been spent on players and I have even paid in about £1m in hospitality but never taken a salary from the place. "I get six complimentary tickets the same as everyone else and if I want extra I have to pay for them the same as everyone else. "There are no free lunches for David Murray at Ibrox and I have never taken part or been at the centre of any of the numerous victory celebrations we have had." Murray disappears to celebrate success with a small group of close friends, leaving the roar of the crowd to wash over the players and management. "Supporters don't want chairmen hanging around, even though they look to people like me to provide some kind of direction and the new ways to keep moving the club on," he said. "I hope I can say that in my 10 years so far I've been fairly good at that, but the day I run out of ideas is the day I'll know it's over. I'm sure someone will tell me because I have good people around me, I always have. "But I'm not ready yet to step back and I see enough fresh challenges, staying ahead at home and winning a place at the European table, ahead in the next 10 years to keep my own adrenaline flowing." He knows roughly how much it will cost him and he's heard the rumours that ENIC, who have invested £40m in Rangers, are uneasy at the club's spending policies but Murray claims these backers have always been supportive of his methods. He said: "They could kick up a fuss but they don't. Besides, I am the owner of the club and so far most people seem to like what I've done." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Still just at least twice then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismcarab Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 "In truth there were more than a few within the SFA who were shocked when the independent panel revealed their punishment. Indeed, one of the men at the very top of the administrative tree was so surprised by the verdict he almost fell from his lofty perch." Above is a quote from Traynors populist rank amateur newspaper piece. The man even has the gall, while sitting on his own pedestal, to imply someone else is acting aloof. Hey Jim, if your reading this - take your gums out of Fat Sally's lap. He's demanding transparency and wants to know who these people at the SFA are.....you pair of fat twats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Tbf, they're also currently prevented from registering new players, e.g. Cousin. Absolutely shocking, OTT punishment. Imagine stopping a club with no money from signing new players 40 out of 41 of the other senior clubs couldn't even contemplate signing. Pyoor drakonyan man! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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