Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Caff]

Ecclesiastes Ch1 V2

Off topic but I've just google that and noticed that Chapter 3 is obviously where The Byrds got the lyrics for Turn Turn Turn from.

Thank you Jacksgranda, every day is a school day!

[DuntoiRab]

I'm going to throw this out to the thread. I heard it Thrusday and looked for news but found nothing, might be nothing but here goes.

I work with Mark Roberts, new unwashed manager's, father.

He told me, Mark and Dave(I think the assistant) were playing golf on Wednesday when the Dave dude got a call on the mobile.

We have to go now he says, what's up, I'll tell you in the car.

Mark wouldn't tell his Da what was up. But it had to do with the Scottish setup over all, no details I am afraid.

I'm wondering if the SFA gave a heads up to the clubs.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Did you read my previous post ?

These payments were made OFFSHORE so they are not covered by SCOTS LAW.

This was more a statement about loans in general than about fraudulent EBTs. I believe English law has a similar clause. If the EBTs were paid on shore, which is completely legal and the administrators of that loan did not contact the recipients for years the loan would be forgiven.

Rangers will be found liable for the BTC plus penalties but I don't think the employees who received this money have a case to answer or money to pay.

[Desert Nomad]

surely a donation of that size would at least have made the courier?

Perhaps it was "gifted" in the form of an EBT?

[HibeeJibee]

Have you seen the fuss the press and everyone made over the idea of Rangers not being part of the SPL?

You sit there and say rules are black and white HJ but I notice the contract doesn't say their has to be 4 Edinburgh derbys.

The fact this is wrote into the deal itself is morally wrong and you know it.

I don't. If Sky-ESPN want the clause... i.e. they'll pay less if it doesn't exist... give them it. It doesn't override the SPL rules and it doesn't try to. If Celtic finished 12th and Hibs 11th they can't relegate Hibs, nor deny promotion to someone eligible.

The SPL has had a few previous seasons with no relegation before remember.

Ah, you play the Brockhole, m'lud.

Edited June 16, 2012 by HibeeJibee

[Leepylee]

Here ya go have a wee look at this web page on the SKY deal and is pretty detailed !

Good link hellbhoy, to save folk time I have taken the liberty of cutting and pasting a quote from it

"Therefore the thought that Rangers leaving the SPL would decimate Scottish football is a fallacy. A handful of teams would lose in the region of £200k to £300k over 3 years, the rest bar Celtic would near enough break even."

It's what we all knew , except for the daily record and the blue order.

http://melvillesmusings.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/spl-tv-deal-post-rangers-fc/

[hellbhoy]

This was more a statement about loans in general than about fraudulent EBTs. I believe English law has a similar clause. If the EBTs were paid on shore, which is completely legal and the administrators of that loan did not contact the recipients for years the loan would be forgiven.

Rangers will be found liable for the BTC plus penalties but I don't think the employees who received this money have a case to answer or money to pay.

Here's a wee snippet from "The TAXGUIDE" website on EBT loans.

"From an employee's point of view, loans offered through an Employee Benefit Trust can be a very cheap way of borrowing money. First, it is important to understand how the loan is paid back. This type of loan is judged to have no repayments 'in perpetuity' – in these circumstances, the term of perpetuity is judged to be 80 years. Instead, the money is recovered by the employer through wage deductions. Furthermore, as the employer is already receiving tax relief on the EBT, the loan is unlikely to incur any interest, making it a far more attractive option than a high street bank."

[Granny Danger]

Was out today and listening to part of the BBC radio programme. Best point was made by Tom English, to paraphrase 'If newco Rangers accept their punishment including demotion to the third no-one will be able to criticise them on this matter in the future. They will have their integrity intact'.

Surely that's a very valid argument for all the parties in this matter.

[Leepylee]

I don't. If Sky-ESPN want the clause... i.e. they'll pay less if it doesn't exist... give them it. It doesn't override the SPL rules and it doesn't try to. If Celtic finished 12th and Hibs 11th they can't relegate Hibs, nor deny promotion to someone eligible.

Sigh. No but they could and now seemingly WOULD say " erm right emergency reconstruction lads, no relegation this year and 2 teams will be promoting to give us a wonderfully exciting league of 14 "

THAT'S the point. The rules may SAY its the same for all but in reality, it's not.

[Heidthebaw]

Did you read my previous post ?

These payments were made OFFSHORE so they are not covered by SCOTS LAW.

As far as I understand, if the payee is based in the UK in the tax year they get the 'loan', the debt becomes statute barred after 5 years regardless of

where the payment goes . This is a grey area as there tends not to be any agreement between the parties regarding repayment schedules etc

so no notice of arrears etc like you get with a normal loan with the banks.

[p&b is a disgrace]

I'm going to throw this out to the thread. I heard it Thrusday and looked for news but found nothing, might be nothing but here goes.

I work with Mark Roberts, new unwashed manager's, father.

He told me, Mark and Dave(I think the assistant) were playing golf on Wednesday when the Dave dude got a call on the mobile.

We have to go now he says, what's up, I'll tell you in the car.

Mark wouldn't tell his Da what was up. But it had to do with the Scottish setup over all, no details I am afraid.

I'm wondering if the SFA gave a heads up to the clubs.

:o He had his mobile switched on? On the golf course?

[Gaz FFC]

I don't. If Sky-ESPN want the clause... i.e. they'll pay less if it doesn't exist... give them it. It doesn't override the SPL rules and it doesn't try to. If Celtic finished 12th and Hibs 11th they can't relegate Hibs, nor deny promotion to someone eligible.

Ah, you play the Brockhole, m'lud.

Why doesn't the contract state no old firm here's the figure then?

We've seen what happens if the threat of no old firm is hanging over the SPL. We got a big piece in the tabloids stating Sky aren't interested without them, all lies. People in the press and RFC apologists have resorted to blackmail to make sure we have Rangers next season in the SPL.

As for your quip about Brockville i expect better from a poster of your calibre HJ.

I made my feelings perfectly clear on this matter on several threads and here it is just for you.

Don't promote Falkirk if you like, but their has to be relegation no matter what.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Hope I made this....

1869!

Year of formation of Scotland's oldest professional club.

OLD firm my arse!

[DuntoiRab]

:o He had his mobile switched on? On the golf course?

Vibrate mode up his arse no doubt

I do get some scoop on them.

It's a great pity a guid Killie boy gone bad!

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Here's a wee snippet from "The TAXGUIDE" website on EBT loans.

"From an employee's point of view, loans offered through an Employee Benefit Trust can be a very cheap way of borrowing money. First, it is important to understand how the loan is paid back. This type of loan is judged to have no repayments 'in perpetuity' – in these circumstances, the term of perpetuity is judged to be 80 years. Instead, the money is recovered by the employer through wage deductions. Furthermore, as the employer is already receiving tax relief on the EBT, the loan is unlikely to incur any interest, making it a far more attractive option than a high street bank."

1. Deduction of wages is not automatic and may not occur immediately

2. The stoppage of employment doesn't mean these loans need to be repaid either meaning that another way would need to be found to pay back the money and if no contact about the debt then it would be expunged.

It isn't really relevant here though.

The point was that people were saying the EBT wasn't a loan because it wasn't being repaid and had no known conditions of being repaid. A legal EBT could be administered that way. Adding in contractual obligations for pay is where the scheme went wrong, yes?

It could be noted then that a Director like Campbell Ogilvie might well have a legal EBT. He is no longer an employee of Rangers so how and when should he pay this loan back?

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Why doesn't the contract state no old firm here's the figure then?

We've seen what happens if the threat of no old firm is hanging over the SPL. We got a big piece in the tabloids stating Sky aren't interested without them, all lies. People in the press and RFC apologists have resorted to blackmail to make sure we have Rangers next season in the SPL.

As for your quip about Brockville i expect better from a poster of your calibre HJ.

I made my feelings perfectly clear on this matter on several threads and here it is just for you.

Don't promote Falkirk if you like, but their has to be relegation no matter what.

To be fair, Gaz, Brockville was a proper tip....

[hellbhoy]

As far as I understand, if the payee is based in the UK in the tax year they get the 'loan', the debt becomes statute barred after 5 years regardless of

where the payment goes . This is a grey area as there tends not to be any agreement between the parties regarding repayment schedules etc

so no notice of arrears etc like you get with a normal loan with the banks.

It's 80 years and notice the bold type in repaying BACK the loan from "the taxguide" website

From an employee's point of view, loans offered through an Employee Benefit Trust can be a very cheap way of borrowing money. First, it is important to understand how the loan is paid back. This type of loan is judged to have no repayments 'in perpetuity' – in these circumstances, the term of perpetuity is judged to be 80 years. Instead, the money is recovered by the employer through wage deductions. Furthermore, as the employer is already receiving tax relief on the EBT, the loan is unlikely to incur any interest, making it a far more attractive option than a high street bank.

[Chazza1910]

With Jim Spence's news that the SFA will merge the SPL and SFL, it looks like Rangers have done Scottish football a massive favour and for that we should be forever grateful.

Don't mind spending another year in the First if play-offs are brought in, or reconstruction, pyramid systems, the lot.

And there's no humming and hawing about thisl If the SFA decide to do it, it will be done. Amen.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

It's 80 years and notice the bold type in repaying BACK the loan from "the taxguide" website

From an employee's point of view, loans offered through an Employee Benefit Trust can be a very cheap way of borrowing money. First, it is important to understand how the loan is paid back. This type of loan is judged to have no repayments 'in perpetuity' – in these circumstances, the term of perpetuity is judged to be 80 years. Instead, the money is recovered by the employer through wage deductions. Furthermore, as the employer is already receiving tax relief on the EBT, the loan is unlikely to incur any interest, making it a far more attractive option than a high street bank.

It can be 1000 years, they still have to write to you every 5 years to keep a claim on the loan.

[HibeeJibee]

Sigh. No but they could and now seemingly WOULD say " erm right emergency reconstruction lads, no relegation this year and 2 teams will be promoting to give us a wonderfully exciting league of 14 "

And that could as easily happen whether a TV contract includes a renegotiation clause or not.