Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[hellbhoy]

Just now, bennett said:

 

The evidence of Sandy Bryson, the SFA’s Head of Registrations, held the key as to why stronger punitive action was not taken by the tribunal.  Under questioning, he explained that a player, once registered with the ruling body, remained registered with them until such time as his contract ended or that player left their club’s employment.

 

Consequently, even though the complete details of his contract had been wilfully withheld or any other breach had occurred, that registration, once accepted, would stand.

As a result of that policy, it was not possible for Nimmo Smith and his learned friends to state that the players who had benefited from side letters detailing the amounts to be paid into Employee Benefit Trusts, should not have been fielded during the decade under dispute.

It therefore followed that the results of the matches played during that time were valid and that there could not be a case for stripping of titles. Hence the £250,000 fine on the oldco.

 

Stopped reading at Sandy Bryson head of registrations at the SFA.

Why?, because the SFA are corrupt as f**k towards The Rangers their demented brainchild.

Next piece of pish to ignore Benny?

[bennett]

2 minutes ago, hellbhoy said:

Stopped reading at Sandy Bryson head of registrations at the SFA.

Why?, because the SFA are corrupt as f**k towards The Rangers their demented brainchild.

Next piece of pish to ignore Benny?

 

An average response from an average celtic fan.

 

[hellbhoy]

Just now, bennett said:

 

An average response from an average celtic fan.

 

Aye, that's what it is Benny. Nothing at all to do with how corrupt the associations were in the lead up to Rangers dying.

[bennett]

2 minutes ago, hellbhoy said:

Aye, that's what it is Benny. Nothing at all to do with how corrupt the associations were in the lead up to Rangers dying.

 

That was terrible so it was, you have every right to be angry imo.

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Sevco fans definitely not taking the last few days badly at all. 

 

[bennett]

Whoever wrote that got it spot on, sounds awfy like a certain green n grey teams fans.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Sorry to get all Denis Healey on you but it's like being savaged by a dead sheep:

Was that not to do with Geoffrey Howe? He did a thoroughly savage job in the end.

[Henrik's tongue]

11 minutes ago, bennett said:

Whoever wrote that got it spot on, sounds awfy like a certain green n grey teams fans.

 

63  

[The OP]

Must've missed Lionel Messi ceasing to exist then all of his assets and honours being sold to another guy who is now trying to impersonate him.

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

5 minutes ago, The OP said:

Must've missed Lionel Messi ceasing to exist then all of his assets and honours being sold to another guy who is now trying to impersonate him.

 

From the same ***

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Who says we couldn't afford them?
Alex Rae , who received an EBT, turned down contracts worth more to play for Rangers.
Is money the one and only reason players sign for clubs? If you accept that it is not then your argument dies right there.
Now. Are you able to think for yourself and admit that the 'they couldn't afford these players' just doesn't stand up.
Other clubs and many players and officials have used tax avoidance schemes. Should they be stripped of trophies? 

Bloody Hell - are you for real?
Whether or not people might have played for them for less is utterly immaterial.

Other clubs have indeed used tax avoidance schemes, but none that I know of have deceitfully registered dozens of players over several years.

Do the distinctions regarding Rangers really escape you, or are you just being deliberately daft? x

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Do the distinctions regarding Rangers really escape you, or are you just being deliberately daft? x

 

It's No8 on a trolling mission ffs. What do you think? 

[Thistle_do_nicely]

5 hours ago, BobWilliamson said:

Who says we couldn't afford them?

Alex Rae , who received an EBT, turned down contracts worth more to play for Rangers.

Is money the one and only reason players sign for clubs? If you accept that it is not then your argument dies right there.

Now. Are you able to think for yourself and admit that the 'they couldn't afford these players' just doesn't stand up.

Other clubs and many players and officials have used tax avoidance schemes. Should they be stripped of trophies? 

Without going into the huge headache of trawling through the personal allowances, NI rates or income tax for the EBT years, or the fun and games of any allowable expenses through self employment or tax credits through dividend income, a simple explanation would be this:

Say you have a player earning £100,000 through the payroll per annum as income from employment, through Old Firm Blue Ltd; as earnings these will fall under the scope of income tax and be subject to NI deductions. Lets say this amounts to 20% of that total, or £20,000; this leaves the player with £80,000 net salary after deductions. 

However, Old Firm Blue also offer interest free """'''loans""""" to their player, on the side, amounting to £20,000 a year, which aren't taxed.

Old Firm Green, meanwhile, pay a player £125,000 a year. After 20% deductions this amounts to £100,000 net for the player.

Effectively:

Old Firm Blue Total Outlay (Wages + """"loans""""')  = £100,000

Old Firm Blue Player Net Wages (and """loans""") = £100,000

Old Firm Green Total Outlay (Wages) = £125,000

Old Firm Green Player Net Wages = £100,000

So effectively, to offer the same player the same net income without the """"loans"""" Old Firm Green would have to offer £25,000 more per year. This all adds up to staggering amounts. As mentioned its more complicated by things like 1/9th tax credits on dividends which might be part of renumeration at other clubs or Rangers at the time which tbh im not familiar with (edit: although to clarify it isnt illegal to receive income from multiple sources - not paying tax due or hiding taxable income is though!) but all else being equal, with EBT's now being ruled, as far as I understand it, as falling within the scope of income tax since the "substance not the form" was that they were income from employment, not loans to be repaid, and without any proof of any sort of wrongdoing, illegal tax schemes or similar from Old Firm Green or anyone else that im aware of in scottish football I'd argue Rangers benefitted, illegitimately, for *years*, and should thus have titles stripped. If theres any other evidence coming to light of a similar nature at any other Scottish clubs who won trophies then they should be stripped too, but afaik theres nothing, and certainly not to the scale of what Rangers were up to.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Thistle_do_nicely

[Johnny van Axeldongen]

Quote

While I am Chairman, Rangers’ overspending will always be on a sustainable and robust basis and one that safeguards the future of our Club.

[Blue92]

Stopped reading at Sandy Bryson head of registrations at the SFA.
Why?, because the SFA are corrupt as f**k towards The Rangers their demented brainchild.
Next piece of pish to ignore Benny?

If the SFA are so corrupt, why are fans calling for their authority and demanding that they and the SPFL strip titles? If the SFA are as corrupt as folk make out then any ruling on stripped titles wouldn't hold much weight due to all of the said corruption? This isn't a dig just a genuine question.

[Insaintee]

2 hours ago, bennett said:

 

The evidence of Sandy Bryson, the SFA’s Head of Registrations, held the key as to why stronger punitive action was not taken by the tribunal.  Under questioning, he explained that a player, once registered with the ruling body, remained registered with them until such time as his contract ended or that player left their club’s employment.

 

Consequently, even though the complete details of his contract had been wilfully withheld or any other breach had occurred, that registration, once accepted, would stand.

As a result of that policy, it was not possible for Nimmo Smith and his learned friends to state that the players who had benefited from side letters detailing the amounts to be paid into Employee Benefit Trusts, should not have been fielded during the decade under dispute.

It therefore followed that the results of the matches played during that time were valid and that there could not be a case for stripping of titles. Hence the £250,000 fine on the oldco.

 

But this is not correct, nor even relevant. This is no longer about incorrect registration this is about making illegal payments to players. 

On the issue of registration this is now about wilful deceit. That's not the same as putting the dots and crossing tee's in the wrong place. The real reason the SFA is desperate to make this go away is because their chairman knew about and was complicit it in the whole scheme. 

I can see fan groups taking the SFA to court AND winning!

[Insaintee]

6 minutes ago, Blue92 said:

If the SFA are so corrupt, why are fans calling for their authority and demanding that they and the SPFL strip titles? If the SFA are as corrupt as folk make out then any ruling on stripped titles wouldn't hold much weight due to all of the said corruption? This isn't a dig just a genuine question.

They are being given the opportunity to behave in a non-corrupt manner and cleanse their own house. If not then I can see legal action taking place. 

[bennett]

13 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

But this is not correct, nor even relevant. This is no longer about incorrect registration this is about making illegal payments to players. 

On the issue of registration this is now about wilful deceit. That's not the same as putting the dots and crossing tee's in the wrong place. The real reason the SFA is desperate to make this go away is because their chairman knew about and was complicit it in the whole scheme. 

I can see fan groups taking the SFA to court AND winning!

Nothing has changed, the LNS hearing verdict still stands so save your faux outrage for someone else.

[Blue92]

They are being given the opportunity to behave in a non-corrupt manner and cleanse their own house. If not then I can see legal action taking place. 

In my opinion, I can't see what legal action would achieve. It would be very hard to to quantify the use of EBT's in that manner into a 'sporting advantage' you can't just say I think they are cheating c***s so strip the titles. It would be a very long process and I'm not sure many clubs (meaning their board not the fans) would have a genuine appetite for it. Could a court prove beyond reasonable doubt that without EBT's we wouldn't have won the titles or prove that a player wouldn't have joined the club without the said EBT's? I think it would be very difficult.

The net result of this tax evasion scheme is you are essentially able to pay players more in terms of salary, but so does spending out with your means and then going in to administration which happens throughout football worldwide.

[Insaintee]

22 minutes ago, bennett said:

Nothing has changed, the LNS hearing verdict still stands so save your faux outrage for someone else.

I am