Insaintee Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, Blue92 said: In my opinion, I can't see what legal action would achieve. It would be very hard to to quantify the use of EBT's in that manner into a 'sporting advantage' you can't just say I think they are cheating c***s so strip the titles. It would be a very long process and I'm not sure many clubs (meaning their board not the fans) would have a genuine appetite for it. Could a court prove beyond reasonable doubt that without EBT's we wouldn't have won the titles or prove that a player wouldn't have joined the club without the said EBT's? I think it would be very difficult. The net result of this tax evasion scheme is you are essentially able to pay players more in terms of salary, but so does spending out with your means and then going in to administration which happens throughout football worldwide. It doesn't have to be quantified just demonstrated. It's a bit like saying Lance Armstrong would have won the tour de france anyway. Not relevant. The clubs don't have to be at the vangard of this I think the ruling opens up the possibility of fans taking direct action in the court. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 But this is not correct, nor even relevant. This is no longer about incorrect registration this is about making illegal payments to players. On the issue of registration this is now about wilful deceit. That's not the same as putting the dots and crossing tee's in the wrong place. The real reason the SFA is desperate to make this go away is because their chairman knew about and was complicit it in the whole scheme. I can see fan groups taking the SFA to court AND winning! Right boys, who's up for suing the SFA for a refund of the money we spent watching a rigged sport for 10 years.....? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue92 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 It doesn't have to be quantified just demonstrated. It's a bit like saying Lance Armstrong would have won the tour de france anyway. Not relevant. The clubs don't have to be at the vangard of this I think the ruling opens up the possibility of fans taking direct action in the court. Performance enhancing drugs have been scientifically proven to enhance the performance of the human body beyond its 'natural' capability, no question about it, and therefore anyone caught is bang to rights. The same with match fixing as it can be proven that there was a direct advantage. The above examples really can't be compared to the case in question, and if the said examples were used to form a case for title stripping they would be laughed out of court. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Just now, Blue92 said: Performance enhancing drugs have been scientifically proven to enhance the performance of the human body beyond its 'natural' capability, no question about it, and therefore anyone caught is bang to rights. The same with match fixing as it can be proven that there was a direct advantage. The above examples really can't be compared to the case in question, and if the said examples were used to form a case for title stripping they would be laughed out of court. Baxter's nasal spray? Your clutching at straws. Understandable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue92 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Plus I forgot to mention it would absolutely need to be quantified in court. That's like saying someone who stole a car should receive the same punishment as an individual who stole lets say a large sum of money. In this case a spade isn't a spade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Performance enhancing drugs have been scientifically proven to enhance the performance of the human body beyond its 'natural' capability, no question about it, and therefore anyone caught is bang to rights. The same with match fixing as it can be proven that there was a direct advantage. The above examples really can't be compared to the case in question, and if the said examples were used to form a case for title stripping they would be laughed out of court. Jesus Christ. The thing is, you don't even need science to prove it was cheating. None of that. Paying money to players that should not have been paid gives you an advantage in signing players other teams couldn't. I can only imagine where we would be if we had that £48 million instead of you. Think we'd have managed more than 2 League 2 titles. Fortunately though we aren't cheats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Performance enhancing drugs have been scientifically proven to enhance the performance of the human body beyond its 'natural' capability, no question about it, and therefore anyone caught is bang to rights. The same with match fixing as it can be proven that there was a direct advantage. The above examples really can't be compared to the case in question, and if the said examples were used to form a case for title stripping they would be laughed out of court. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Blue92 said: Plus I forgot to mention it would absolutely need to be quantified in court. That's like saying someone who stole a car should receive the same punishment as an individual who stole lets say a large sum of money. In this case a spade isn't a spade. Naw it doesnae, Naw it isnae 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Right boys, who's up for suing the SFA for a refund of the money we spent watching a rigged sport for 10 years.....? There is certainly the potential for a lot of fans groups to make some noise and some, perhaps unwise, decisions around challenges in the courts. I'm not sure what is worse though, making some dodgy and potentially doomed to failure appeal in the courts or what appears to be the current setting for most fans, shaking their head and saying "there's no point, we won't get anywhere and it was ages ago so it doesn't matter now". Of course it matters. It's not even so much Rangers cheating but more that the SFA were so complicit in allowing it and that they still are determined to try and cover it up. If anything THAT should be where the focus lies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, Blue92 said: Plus I forgot to mention it would absolutely need to be quantified in court. That's like saying someone who stole a car should receive the same punishment as an individual who stole lets say a large sum of money. In this case a spade isn't a spade. But he wouldn't be allowed to keep the car or the money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Plus I forgot to mention it would absolutely need to be quantified in court. That's like saying someone who stole a car should receive the same punishment as an individual who stole lets say a large sum of money. In this case a spade isn't a spade. Hiya Tedi, Hiya pal... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jambomo said: Of course it matters. It's not even so much Rangers cheating but more that the SFA were so complicit in allowing it and that they still are determined to try and cover it up. If anything THAT should be where the focus lies. ^^^^^^^^^^ THIS The SFA knew fine well that that rangers were administering EBT and issuing side letters. Because their Chairman had one from them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Blue92 said: If the SFA are so corrupt, why are fans calling for their authority and demanding that they and the SPFL strip titles? If the SFA are as corrupt as folk make out then any ruling on stripped titles wouldn't hold much weight due to all of the said corruption? This isn't a dig just a genuine question. The SFA & former SPL knew that Rangers FC est1872 was going down the shitter well over a year at least and then made radical changes to their rule books to save Rangers from liquidation by creating some mythical company to blame for Rangers problems. Not only that they wrote into their rules various legal shit to protect the club from having it's honours stripped from them should they be found guilty. The SPL commission was a sham hearing already rigged before it had taken place to protect their new club called Rangers. They thought no old firm then all the sponsors would piss off which didn't happen and Armageddon was another false dawn peddled to frighten everyone that without a Rangers FC in the SPL clubs would go bust which also didn't happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 5 hours ago, dave.j said: Very enjoyable watching the Orcs squirming to hold on to the illusion that their 54 title haul is in no way tainted or accrued through cheating. It seems to be really important to them that they convince a couple of folk on an internet forum. Regardless of their opinion, their team will forever be known as cheats. 14 trophies, all won through cheating! Bang on dave. We know the truth. Leave them with their delusions. In space no one can hear you chunter on about LNS... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue92 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Jesus Christ. The thing is, you don't even need science to prove it was cheating. None of that. Paying money to players that should not have been paid gives you an advantage in signing players other teams couldn't. I can only imagine where we would be if we had that £48 million instead of you. Think we'd have managed more than 2 League 2 titles. Fortunately though we aren't cheats. 48 million over 10 years, prove that SDM couldn't have used his trusty model of over spending to fund that gap. You can't. But where you would be with 48 million you will never know so not worth worrying about. People seem to be bring morals into this, there is no morals in modern football. Most individuals with wealth behind them will be swindling tax money, tax is for common folk like me and you (I'm assuming your not a millionaire). I've heard that Rangers have fucked the NHS and cost British soldiers their lives but if that is true so have many of the football players we support week in week out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue92 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 The SFA & former SPL knew that Rangers FC est1872 was going down the shitter well over a year at least and then made radical changes to their rule books to save Rangers from liquidation by creating some mythical company to blame for Rangers problems. Not only that they wrote into their rules various legal shit to protect the club from having it's honours stripped from them should they be found guilty. The SPL commission was a sham hearing already rigged before it had taken place to protect their new club called Rangers. They thought no old firm then all the sponsors would piss off which didn't happen and Armageddon was another false dawn peddled to frighten everyone that without a Rangers FC in the SPL clubs would go bust which also didn't happen. If I take your points on board, what makes you think the SFA will act differently now? Surely they have lost all credibility? So my question still stands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 14 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Tell me honestly: Why do you want Rangers to retain the titles in question, especially given that the club has won dozens of others entirely legitimately? There was nothing illegitimate about the geegaws we won during the EBT years. Yes, we had some administrative slip-ups and LNS deal with this perfectly well. We also had a wrangle with HMRC over how tax should be apportioned and, after 7 years, the revenue won on points. Talk of 'cheating' and 'financial doping' and 'biggest sporting scandal' is straight from "The Moon-howlers Guide to Hysterical Hyperbole" and holds no credence whatsoever. All we are guilty of is an administrative sleight of hand and the use of a tax-enhancing scheme which, based on advice given at the time, seemed sensible. To hold any other view is to pander to the lowest common denominator. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: There was nothing illegitimate about the geegaws we won during the EBT years. Yes, we had some administrative slip-ups and LNS deal with this perfectly well. We also had a wrangle with HMRC over how tax should be apportioned and, after 7 years, the revenue won on points. Talk of 'cheating' and 'financial doping' and 'biggest sporting scandal' is straight from "The Moon-howlers Guide to Hysterical Hyperbole" and holds no credence whatsoever. All we are guilty of is an administrative sleight of hand and the use of a tax-enhancing scheme which, based on advice given at the time, seemed sensible. To hold any other view is to pander to the lowest common denominator. Apologies, accountancy isn't my strong point. Could you explain 'tax-enhancing'? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Arnold Layne said: Apologies, accountancy isn't my strong point. Could you explain 'tax-enhancing'? Not mine either. Maybe 'tax efficient' would be better. The substantive point remains: the feverish delirium we're seeing is out of all proportion to our modest calumnies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Not mine either. Maybe 'tax efficient' would be better. The substantive point remains: the feverish delirium we're seeing is out of all proportion to our modest calumnies. f**k up 2-clubs. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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