Araminta Moonbeam QC Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Anyone who is underwhelmed obviously doesn't understand the significance of some of the "revelations". Not every detail/consequence was spelled out. It appears the BBC has enough evidence to make a series on Rangers misdemeanours. That alone is hugely significant. Is that instead of River CIty? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Did you have the program on mute or something? It's confirmation of the use of EBTs for non-discretionary payments - which would make them liable for income tax, and this income tax wasn't paid. Everyone's known for ages that EBTs have been used - that's never been in dispute. What has been in dispute is that they were used in lieu of a full salary - a "top-up". If you do that, you need to pay income tax on them. The side letter quote in Papac's case indicates that's what's going on. Given that the documents are in possession of a court, even if we took the least charitable view possible of Daly I don't think it's very likely that he'd lie by omission. Do the SFA actually look at club accounts? i've provided all the actual evidence. the half sentence, sentence and one word answer from ranger's documents didn't confirm the EBTs were for non-discretionary payments. that was the impression given by the reporter but the primary evidence presented on it's own doesn't prove that. what i am wary of is the part where daly said using ebts then the quotes on the screen kicked in and said "...would be of benefit to". half quoting and the quotes beginning as part of sentence which includes editorial comment is classic dirty tricks. why were the words before the elipises not on quoted on the screen? the second quote is "these amounts will not be paid". presumably what the amounts are has been established previously in the document. i'm skeptical as to why this is not presented. the papac quote was merely an affirmation that he would have an EBT. if this is his best stuff it was weak. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailHail1888 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Some good laughs coming on rangers media tonight 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Wot? Confirmation that the EBTs were undeclared secondary contracts? Graeme Souness being paid £30k by the Rangers dodgy tax trust long after his employment or any legitimate payments from the club had ceased, in what appears to be return for conning Blackburn Rovers into offloading a three legged dog surplus to Rangers requirements on them when he was the Blackburn manager? (Which brings open the question whether the Rangers Trust has been used for massive bribery throughout Rangers dealings in world football as of yet to be investigated) David Murray funding Rangers virtually entirely via Bank Of Scotland loans, who once taken over by Lloyds TSB when the banks began to collapse and quite rightly wanted to see the colour of Murray's own money as security - and hence time for a sharp exit? Craig Whyte's "off the radar wealth" being that he was really just a front man for the Prince of Monaco, who wanted to own Rangers but wanted it kept quiet? Quarter of a million of Rangers trust money that supposedly went to Banstead Athletic FC but they have never even heard about (straight out of the Bill Hiddleston at Third Lanark one, that!) Haudit and Daudit being up to their eyeballs in Whyte's dodgy takeover scheme and funding via Ticketus in the first place, showing their £25 million writ against Rangers old lawyers to be a complete smoke and mirrors job more to con prospective new owners that there was £25 million more money coming in to pay off Rangers monster debts What the hell else did you want? Everyone in Rangers had sold their souls in EBTs to the devil, in return for which they shagged goats and Chick Young every Sunday on the full moon on an alter drenched with the blood of the most succulent lambs? Er, there is very little of what you have posted that wasn;t already in the public domain or could found on rangerstaxcase.com I wanted sight of the second contracts. I didn't get it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeTeeJag Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Do you think Chico and Traytor were given a heads up about what was in tonight's programme, or will they be asked to move their retirement plans up by a few years? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p&b is a disgrace Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 the first thing wasn't proven in the program. Where an employer reduces an employees salary and replaces this with a contribution into an EBT this renders the income as taxable. It will have taken Hector about 45 minutes to evidence this when looking at Payroll & Finance records - and its confirmed by the FD. The dialogue is evidence that this arrangement was custom and practice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Ok, time to fess up someone - who is Dennis? This has to be a wind up Dennis QUIS SEPARABIT IS OUR MOTTO Group: True Blue Topics: 387 Posts: 10,266 Rep: 324 Joined: 12-May 09 Gender: Male Location: OUR ONLY CRIME IS LOYALTY Posted Today, 09:00 PM Could we not make a weekend of it and protest at Downing st, via Soho. 0 Sounds like our own Zen Archer or possibly DundeeBarry But 10,266 posts !?? THAT'S committment ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) RTC Blogger Wins Orwell Blog Prize Blog Prize This year’s Blog Prize judges chose Rangers Tax-Case, as the Blog Prize winner. Rangers Tax-Case says s/he are using their blog to ‘provide the details of what Rangers FC have done, why it was illegal, and what the implications are for one of the largest football clubs in Britain.’ The winning posts investigate the financial scandal surrounding Rangers Football Club. This year’s Blog Prize judges were Suzanne Moore (journalist, The Guardian and the Mail on Sunday), Hopi Sen (blogger, previously shortlisted and longlisted for the Orwell Prize) and Sean Dodson (Guardian contributor and senior lecturer of journalism at Leeds Metropolitan University). The judges said: ‘The 2012 Blog Prize showed that not only could blogs comment on current events, they could drive stories forward. Rangers Tax-Case takes what might be a dry topic – the tax affairs of a sports team – and shows how a striving for transitory success has severely distorted sporting, legal and ethical boundaries. Displaying focused contempt for those who evade difficult truths, and beating almost every Scottish football journalist to the real story – Rangers Tax-Case shows how expertise and incisive writing can expose the hypocrisies the powerful use to protect themselves from the consequences of their actions. It is a worthy winner which not only proves that independent blogging is as healthy as it ever was, but also offers a mirror in which our times are reflected.’ Edited May 23, 2012 by Florentine_Pogen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Anyone who is underwhelmed obviously doesn't understand the significance of some of the "revelations". Not every detail/consequence was spelled out. It appears the BBC has enough evidence to make a series on Rangers misdemeanours. That alone is hugely significant. Agree the phrase he used was 'data room' on the EBT's. Daly has unearthed literally a pile of stuff and he couldn't use the narrative to go into small details on each EBT'S and second contract. Murray didn't put a penny into Rangers! That alone is a huge revelation and pulls down the bluster of that era. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Reading the whos who of receiving ebts: Ostenstad Eggen Pentila Zurab kishkashvilli (fk knows) Nerlinger Mols Christiansen Anyone else think they are going down the pan for a team of reserves? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHawHaw Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Update from the south of France apparently 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Er, there is very little of what you have posted that wasn;t already in the public domain or could found on rangerstaxcase.com I wanted sight of the second contracts. I didn't get it. what he said. Atleast the beeb probably got some good viewing figures tonight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Where an employer reduces an employees salary and replaces this with a contribution into an EBT this renders the income as taxable. It will have taken Hector about 45 minutes to evidence this when looking at Payroll & Finance records - and its confirmed by the FD. The dialogue is evidence that this arrangement was custom and practice. i got the impression that the quotes were from the time watterues and papac joined rangers so their wages were never reduced. they were always low. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 RTC Blogger Wins Orwell Blog Prize Blog Prize This year’s Blog Prize judges chose Rangers Tax-Case, as the Blog Prize winner. Rangers Tax-Case says s/he are using their blog to ‘provide the details of what Rangers FC have done, why it was illegal, and what the implications are for one of the largest football clubs in Britain.’ The winning posts investigate the financial scandal surrounding Rangers Football Club. This year’s Blog Prize judges were Suzanne Moore (journalist, The Guardian and the Mail on Sunday), Hopi Sen (blogger, previously shortlisted and longlisted for the Orwell Prize) and Sean Dodson (Guardian contributor and senior lecturer of journalism at Leeds Metropolitan University). The judges said: ‘The 2012 Blog Prize showed that not only could blogs comment on current events, they could drive stories forward. Rangers Tax-Case takes what might be a dry topic – the tax affairs of a sports team – and shows how a striving for transitory success has severely distorted sporting, legal and ethical boundaries. Displaying focused contempt for those who evade difficult truths, and beating almost every Scottish football journalist to the real story – Rangers Tax-Case shows how expertise and incisive writing can expose the hypocrisies the powerful use to protect themselves from the consequences of their actions. It is a worthy winner which not only proves that independent blogging is as healthy as it ever was, but also offers a mirror in which our times are reflected.’ Well done 'Irish Phil' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Er, there is very little of what you have posted that wasn;t already in the public domain or could found on rangerstaxcase.com I wanted sight of the second contracts. I didn't get it. This is a wind-up, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owsley Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 In the name of pie and bovril research, I have uncovered Mr Baxendale Wotsit in action, sans pipe. Cannot post the link for obvious reasons but I will just say...the lucky, lucky b*****d! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunfellaff Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Thing is - such is the society we live in - has he done anything that's illegal? He ran-up huge debts with a bank, then wasn't able to pay them back properly - then sold one of his assets to someone for £1. Even if the EBT thing ever reached the point of criminal prosecution, he's probably far enough insulated from it's implementation - or could plead he thought he was behaving legally. Probably right, he will bugger off to the sun drenched isles warbling: ''2 wheels on my wagon, but I'm still rollin along, the HMRC, are after me, EBT's, may burn my ears, but I'm singing a happy song'' Edited May 23, 2012 by wunfellaff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Anyone who is underwhelmed obviously doesn't understand the significance of some of the "revelations". Not every detail/consequence was spelled out. Your second sentence is the reason why many are underwhelmed. I'm sure there is great evidence out there and I'm sure the BBC has seen it - its just that it wasn't shown in the programme tonight. Not that I expected it to be shown tonight however. I'd have been shocked if it had. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 what he said. Atleast the beeb probably got some good viewing figures tonight. ^^^^^^^^^^ Shitting himself 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 ^^^^^^^^^^ Shitting himself Are you retarded? Seriosuly what are you all about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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