Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[pozbaird]

Pozbaird, i think we all know deep down how this `endgame` will be played. Rangers are completely unviable, will lose the tax cases and the current company will fold. A `newco` will be formed under new ownership and will end up playing in the SPL, at Ibrox in blue shirts with a technically different name and a similar badge. I`m sure that nobody agrees with the ethics of this, but deep down, we all know that `rangers` in whatever guise will not be allowed to disappear. They`re the RBS of sport. What`s the fucking point?

That's the fear - but on the other side of the coin, I don't want them to actually 'do a Third Lanark' and be wiped off the face of the earth. I have no time for Livingston for example, but I didn't want them to do a Third Lanark either. All I want to see is that when the dust settles - whatever Rangers 'punishment' or 'fate' may be - they need to face it head on, and the authorities should not shirk their responsibilities.... if those responsibilities are staring them right in the face.

I know TV deals are very important, I know big clubs have bigger supports and naturally generate more income - that's undeniable, I have yet to hear a diddy club supporter deny that the OF are big clubs, with big supports, and they are Sky TVs big games. That's fact. However, it isn't enough to bend, break, re-write, or throw away the rulebooks because this is one of the Old Firm. They are a member of the SPL same as anyone else. They have however, embarked on a long period of financial doping, gross mis-management, possibly illegal practices, and are lying in a bed of their own shite. No-one else's shite, their own. It's not Lawwell's fault, it's not Dundee United's fault for charging for a replayed game, it's not Dunfermline's fault, it's not Alex Salmond and the SNPs fault....

I cannot imagine a scenario where a club guilty of such reckless mis-management are brazenly allowed to be liquidated for convenience, and the status quo remains. A 12 team SPL carrying on as if nothing happened, bar some record books being amended, a re-designed club crest, and some papers being re-filed with UEFA and the SPL.

No chance. If that's what the authorities try to foist upon the nation, then seriously, what has been the point in my own club, or Hibs, or St Johnstone screwing the nut and living within their own means? Why did our chairman and BOD bother brokering a life-saving stadium deal and cutting playing budgets? Why did we bother with all our community projects to try and bring through young players and engage the local kids? Why bother at all? Why not just stay at Love Street, let it become even more decrepit, but spunk cash we didn't have on expensive foreigners to try and 'chase the dream' and 'do a Dundee or Livvy'. Three seasons or so of 'glory' before it all goes Kaboom... No problem though. Administration followed by liquidation, and a 'fresh start going forward'.

Fcukers. What goes around comes around.

[NorthBank]

^^this.

Floating charges etc held against assets are also only held against the value of the floating charge, i.e. if Agent Whhyte has a floating charge against Ibrokes for £20m and the asset is sold for £25m, then £5m goes into the creditors pot. Conversely, if the players are sold for £20m and (presumably) no floating charge is held against them, then £20m goes into the creditors pot.

Regarding the value of the assets - I wonder if it's squeaky bum time in Grant Thornton's office yet.

Most tellingly, if they are liquidated, shares in Lyons are likely to head Northward (figuratively speaking)

Someone mentioned a few pages back that liquidation involves a thorough investigation of financial on-goings over the history of the company. - Thorough as in not carried out by the succulent lamb brigade. Seemingly EVERYONE ever involved in rapeepul is shittin' themselves about what might be revealed. Hence the CVA at all costs line from everyone, including Whyte.

This. In these fiscally straightened times, it is in the best interest of the taxpayer - every one of us - that Rangers' £125 million of assets are sold off in their entirety, and the club liquidated. No messing around with pennies in the pound. Perhaps a template e-mail campaign can be set up to point this out to anyone relevant to the process at HMRC, sports journalists and of course every poltiician who weighs in with their belated sympathies for Scottish football's equivalent to Enron.

I'd like to start the bidding for a rubbish stadium in Govan at 25p.

Thanks guys.

If I provided services including my costs and not just my profit, for someone and they then offered my 20p in the pound I would prefer to see them go under than accept such a paltry amount. At least they would not f**k me over again nor anyone else. What makes Rangers so confident that a CVA will be accepted?

[~~~]

I cant understand how Rangers can owe so much money to the like of the Scottish Ambulance Service, and Glasgow City Council and none of these organisations done nothing prior to Admin to collect this money from Rangers!

GCC would be quick enough to take me to court if i "forgot" to pay my council tax

Also, i find it strange since going into admin Rangers have spent £6,000 on petty cash

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/fe/a8/0,,5~174334,00.pdf

[Bearwithme]

£93,000,000 in tax.

That makes me phucking sick.

In a time when families are scrapping the bottom of a barrel for a living, school and other services are suffering, and our nation as a whole is suffering.

Take the lot, liquidise the c*nts who have spent all YOUR money on players. Luckily i'm a student so i'm not paying tax yet but makes me sick that they have done this, my family has helped to fund rangers......spew.

If rangers are given any kind of break on that 93MILLION, then I will, when I get full employment, expect a full tax refund on the percentage rangers were allowed. Many small businesses and lives have been destroyed by the tax man taking their money (unfortunately) so why an organisation as morally disgusting and with such over-paid staff should be allowed to continue a day further is beyond me.

Good luck HMRC....We are all routing for you,

how ironic it would be if the Queen killed one of her own.

I'd say it's highly unlikely to be £93m in the end. It could be an awful lot less. We'll see what happens with the tribunal.

[Mark Connolly]

I'd say it's highly unlikely to be £93m in the end. It could be an awful lot less. We'll see what happens with the tribunal.

It's already at least £14m - is that not bad enough?

[Bearwithme]

Stated when dundee went into admin:

In a statement the Scottish Football League said it regretted the situation Dundee are in but added it had acted to protect the "integrity" of the league. "We are of the opinion that lessons are not being learned," the statement said. "For example, clubs have to realise that, going forward, they cannot treat their [tax] obligations as something akin to a credit card."

That was the second time Dundee went into admin, wasn't it?

[Bearwithme]

It's already at least £14m - is that not bad enough?

Of course it's a bad situation. But it's a helluva lot better than £93m.

[~~~]

That was the second time Dundee went into admin, wasn't it?

ooft, Kitty has claws

[speckled tangerine]

I`d love to see Stephen Thompson, Romanov or whoever stick to their guns and veto any effort to get `new` rangers into the SPL when the time surely comes. From a united perspective, other clubs too, we`ve sold or released big earners to bring down the debt. Not sure how much it stands at just now, perhaps 6 million?, but does it matter when rangers lost another 2 million LAST MONTH ALONE and are still due us cash.

[Phantom Bud]

Alex Thomson has just tweeted "Boumsong started whole story. Fraud Squad were onto Redknapp and looked at B deal...went to Ibrox. found lots of weird-looking voodoo on the computers..smelt rat...told bowler hats at HMRC...and here we are..."

Good old 'Arry indirectly responsible for the Big Tax Case - TRIFFIC!

[Bearwithme]

ooft, Kitty has claws

No, just getting things clear.

You can see why there was talking of "lessons not being learned" etc when it had happened before.

Can't you?

Edited April 6, 2012 by Bearwithme

[Granny Danger]

I know of two plots of land in the Glasgow area that could be used for such a project...

And one of them's already been nicknamed the 'big hoose'.

Green dot to you sir.

[eightmile]

HMRC have a stated policy that they will not support a CVA where there is evidence of a serious intent to defraud the tax authorities. They have previously deemed EBT style instruments as one such possible example of this.

I take this to mean that if the HMRC win the 'big' tax case tribunal and it is deemed that the EBT were a tax evasion rather than a tax avoidance device then HMRC will not be inclined to support a CVA. The obvious reason being that it is better for the Treasury to lose some money and sending out a signal to potential future abusers of the system of the consequences of their actions.

Of course this raises other issues that have been alluded to here and elsewhere, namely if it was tax evasion and not avoidance will criminal charges follow.

By all accounts HMRC are more interested in securing 'case law'. I read that up to £1.5bn is within their potential recoupement if they win the tribunal. So whilst Rangers are relevant in a Scottish football context - to HMRC they are simply a means to an end. And the end is getting access to mcuh greater sums of money from other EBT practioners. Good luck Hector.

[Granny Danger]

By all accounts HMRC are more interested in securing 'case law'. I read that up to £1.5bn is within their potential recoupement if they win the tribunal. So whilst Rangers are relevant in a Scottish football context - to HMRC they are simply a means to an end. And the end is getting access to mcuh greater sums of money from other EBT practioners. Good luck Hector.

How can you say that!. Have you not been listening? Rangers are an institution. They are a footballing icon! Without them the whole future of Scottish football and the very fabric of our society is in ruins!

Then again you could be right...........

[~~~]

@alextomo FACT: RFC's problems have very little to do with CW. He played small part after the damage - no matter how Glasgow papers spin it

[PeeTeeJag]

According to the Daily Ranger today Paul Murray isnt worried about the huge amount of money owed. Although I suppose its easy to not worry when its not your money you are putting in.

The DR also says that if the BK win the bid then the Ticketus deal will be ripped up and they will get £10 million over 9 years on an interest free basis.

If I was an investor with Ticketus I would be raging!!! Imagine your company giving away £27 million that you think will provide a good investment over 4/5 years, but instead you only get just over a third of it back with NO PROFIT!!!

The way this whole shambles has been handled is a disgrace, with even the local newsagent, nevermind the police and ambulance service owed money. They dont even pay for the extra doctors and nurses on duty at the A&E after an OF game!!!

In a conversation with a football club official about 4 or 5 years ago, he said that what he had been told was going on behind the scenes at rangers he found hard to believe, but if true would be explosive. His theory was certain journos knew what was going on but had been asked to keep a lid on it as they hoped to deal with it.

I wonder if he still finds it hard to believe?

[Bearwithme]

According to the Daily Ranger today Paul Murray isnt worried about the huge amount of money owed. Although I suppose its easy to not worry when its not your money you are putting in.

The DR also says that if the BK win the bid then the Ticketus deal will be ripped up and they will get £10 million over 9 years on an interest free basis.

If I was an investor with Ticketus I would be raging!!! Imagine your company giving away £27 million that you think will provide a good investment over 4/5 years, but instead you only get just over a third of it back with NO PROFIT!!!

The way this whole shambles has been handled is a disgrace, with even the local newsagent, nevermind the police and ambulance service owed money. They dont even pay for the extra doctors and nurses on duty at the A&E after an OF game!!!

In a conversation with a football club official about 4 or 5 years ago, he said that what he had been told was going on behind the scenes at rangers he found hard to believe, but if true would be explosive. His theory was certain journos knew what was going on but had been asked to keep a lid on it as they hoped to deal with it.

I wonder if he still finds it hard to believe?

Ticketus and its shareholders should indeed look at the way they handed the money over to Whyte. It seemed a very unusual deal from Ticketus' point of view (and anybody else's I would suggest).

As for the general point about Whyte, Rangers' debt was at a manageable level when he took over. He increased it by a huge amount.

[Zeus]

HMRC have a stated policy that they will not support a CVA where there is evidence of a serious intent to defraud the tax authorities. They have previously deemed EBT style instruments as one such possible example of this.

I take this to mean that if the HMRC win the 'big' tax case tribunal and it is deemed that the EBT were a tax evasion rather than a tax avoidance device then HMRC will not be inclined to support a CVA. The obvious reason being that it is better for the Treasury to lose some money and sending out a signal to potential future abusers of the system of the consequences of their actions.

Of course this raises other issues that have been alluded to here and elsewhere, namely if it was tax evasion and not avoidance will criminal charges follow.

Don't forget the fact that since Whyte took over they have not paid a bean either.

[eightmile]

Alex Thomson has just tweeted "Boumsong started whole story. Fraud Squad were onto Redknapp and looked at B deal...went to Ibrox. found lots of weird-looking voodoo on the computers..smelt rat...told bowler hats at HMRC...and here we are..."

Good old 'Arry indirectly responsible for the Big Tax Case - TRIFFIC!

It appears that whilst investigating Rednapp a small team of HMRC forensic auditors were pursuing information on Boumsong's move to Newcastle. In the course of their work they discovered information on EBT payments and asked to see information on the status of trust and others who had benefitted. They took all relevant files. Voodoo.

[Gaz]

Ticketus and its shareholders should indeed look at the way they handed the money over to Whyte. It seemed a very unusual deal from Ticketus' point of view (and anybody else's I would suggest).

As for the general point about Whyte, Rangers' debt was at a manageable level when he took over. He increased it by a huge amount.

How much has Whyte increased the debt by (and from) since he took over?