Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Huistrinho]

We've heard all the scare stories from the MSM saying Rangers are needed to survive but, you know what, this is bigger than money, its about what is morally right and sporting integrity.

Couldn't agree more. Have any of the supporters groups for the clubs that are potentially going to be worst hit thought about releasing a statement to the effect of "we'd rather risk our club entering administration than sacrifice sporting integrity"? I'm sure that sort of response couldn't be so easily ignored by the MSM.

[THE KING]

Dream on. Celtic need every penny they can get. They have a net loss of £28.537 million over the last 10 years and they are still not competitive in Europe. Furthermore, the impact of losing Rangers on Scotland's coefficient will make sure that they and any other Scottish teams will have to play CL qualifiers from which they have always had a hard time emerging. Celtic will not be giving any of it away.

remember celtic where probably over spending to keep up with cheat fc.

[stonedsailor]

That expensive-sounding wee bagpipe ditty they've been using for the past 200 years had me fooled. They must curse the amount of effort required to film a new title segment when a team gets promoted.

Anyone have a rough idea what they pay for TV rights versus income from Scottish households subscribing to Sky?

Scottish football is just a schedule filler for Sky, if they ever did decide not to renew the contract they will just replace it with course fishing or poker or something which will pull in similar ratings.

[Paquis]

remember celtic where probably over spending to keep up with cheat fc.

Honest guv. We only did it cos a bad boy made us do it

[Captain_Sensible]

Are the SPL sitting on the Harper McLeod Report? If so, why?

Probably becaise Celtic don't want it coming out before they vote Rangers newco into the SPL.

[Captain_Sensible]

remember celtic where probably over spending to keep up with cheat fc.

Celtic are cheats as well.

Exploiting sectarianism, intimidation of match officials, bigotry, hatred, violence, rioting.

[Dungolfin]

Don't think Celtic can negotiate own deal as would need permission of the home team?

Well as money appears to be the principal motivation I'm sure a bit of cash will be all that's required. It'll be a case of take a small share of something as opposed to 100% of nothing. The other 10 clubs can sell their rights to BBC ALBA. The days of an SPL wide TV deal are numbered I'm afraid.

[LordHawHaw]

Probably becaise Celtic don't want it coming out before they vote Rangers newco into the SPL.

More likely to help the "lets save Rangers" campaigners from being further embarrassed when they weigh the words "sporting integrity" and "financial expediency"

I'm stunned by the level of cheating we are attempting to condone here

[HTG]

Hello,

First time poster on here but been reading all the comments on this topic for a few weeks and like to put my thoughts across!

Totally agree 100% that no newco should be admitted back into the SPL, regardless of the comments from the spineless Killie chairman. We've heard all the scare stories from the MSM saying Rangers are needed to survive but, you know what, this is bigger than money, its about what is morally right and sporting integrity.

We've also had the clown Ralph Topping saying all this uncertainty is making potential sponsors think again about coming on board and putting their name and cash into the SPL but then the the flip side is if Muff & Phlaps, Windy Miller et all get away with this massive stitch up and the SPL chairman vote to late a newco in, then who would want to put their name to a product with no moral fibre or integrity?

Nobody in the MSM has ever raised this point as they are too busy sucking up Rangers as much as they can to save their backsides and remain on the gravy train.

I've a wee suspicion that this whole saga will hit Dons supporters harder than most. Their antipathy to Rangers is well known but Stewart Milne is likely to win a photo finish in the SPL-trouser-dropping-lube-applied race when it comes.

Edited May 6, 2012 by HTG

[Hedgecutter]

Thompson: "I understand how all the fans feel and I have great sympathy for them." "but I have a legal responsibility to run Dundee United and a legal responsibility as a director of the SPL."

Newco in the SPL next season it is then. Contingency plans for Saturday afternoons may need to be made.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Hedgecutter

[Cutty Old]

Last year Rangers contributed 1.00 ranking point to the co-efficient, that's one less than Hearts did.

If the teams under the OF get a wee bit more money and a wee bit more security we may be able to add a few more points than that. After the OF, Motherwell have added more points to the nations co-efficient over the past three years than anyone else.

This type of discussion is part of the problem. Why is it important that the co-efficient is improved ? Is it so that scottish teams can fare better in European competition ? Or, is it perhaps so that scottish clubs can earn more money ? If, like me, you take the latter view, you will realise that the game is turning more and more towards business as football becomes less and less relevant. We need to worry less about co-efficients and concentrate on improving player development and scottish football as a sporting entertainment.

There are no teams in this country who have realistic aspirations to win European tournaments, it's all about chasing the cash. In the long term with reconstruction and an equitable distribution of resources perhaps things can change but at the moment it is in everyone's interests to forget about scrambling for the crumbs from the Old Firm table.

[Monkey Tennis]

This type of discussion is part of the problem. Why is it important that the co-efficient is improved ? Is it so that scottish teams can fare better in European competition ? Or, is it perhaps so that scottish clubs can earn more money ? If, like me, you take the latter view, you will realise that the game is turning more and more towards business as football becomes less and less relevant. We need to worry less about co-efficients and concentrate on improving player development and scottish football as a sporting entertainment.

There are no teams in this country who have realistic aspirations to win European tournaments, it's all about chasing the cash. In the long term with reconstruction and an equitable distribution of resources perhaps things can change but at the moment it is in everyone's interests to forget about scrambling for the crumbs from the Old Firm table.

Spot on.

[deerokus]

remember celtic where probably over spending to keep up with cheat fc.

I'm not sure where that guy got his figures from. Celtic's finances are ok. Not spectacularly profitable or anything, and we've had a few years of falling turnover thanks to being crap in Europe, but our debt is something miniscule like 600k, and we're run in a sustainable way, trying to develop players and sell them on for a profit. Most years we're profitable. We would be able to cut our cloth to suit any loss of money from not having Rangers around relatively easily (and our board would love any excuse to cut back on squad investment even further). A few other clubs would probably thrive in that event - well run clubs like St Mirren don't really need us or Rangers and would probably get bigger gates. It's the guys like Dundee Utd, Killie and Hearts we have to worry about. If some clubs can't cope financially without both us and Rangers being around then so be it, they need to suffer too - it's a disaster if the worst run clubs in the country hold the rest of us to ransom in that way.

I have little faith in our board to do the right thing here though.

Edited May 6, 2012 by deerokus

[HibeeJibee]

I've been away today and the thread has grown an eye-watering several dozen pages in the interim - but from what I gather we now have Thompson and Johnstone sounding (a bit) like they're minded towards an accomodation... something we've previously heard from Steven Brown... and Yorkston saying he's against that.

In all cases it's likely down to self-interest. Even in Yorkston's position, it's the self-interest of them going down anyway, and perhaps being saved if Rangers aren't.

Lawell won't comment as it'd put him in a pickle. St Mirren + Motherwell are in difficult situations due to potential fan takeovers.

MadVlad is, well, mad and unpredictable.

Edited November 21, 2020 by HibeeJibee

[LordHawHaw]

I wonder if I can claim a refund somewhere for the thousands of pounds wasted following hearts in a league that was corrupt and dominated by cheats for the last umpteen years?

Disgusted that these cheating, fraudulent, thieving b*****ds look like getting their own way at the expense of football, integrity, honesty etc etc.

If they stay in the SPL then Scottish football will be dead for ever, and anybody that attends an SPL game will merely be putting money into an organistation that is crooked and allows cheats and bullies to prosper. It bloody stinks.

Oh I'm sure you could make a good case for getting something back after the Harper McLeod report, we've not had a fair league in Scotland for at the very least a decade, most likely further back. Who knew we had a corrupt game and who should be responsible for ensuring that we had what we thought we were buying?

Would our chairmen be able to support a newco if the oldcost was found to be cheating on an unimaginable scale?

[Handsome_Devil]

Would our chairmen be able to support a newco if the oldcost was found to be cheating on an unimaginable scale?

Yes. Yes, they would.

If a drug-trafficking terrorist offered them fifty quid extra sponsorship they'd take it.

[HibeeJibee]

Have any of the supporters groups for the clubs that are potentially going to be worst hit thought about releasing a statement to the effect of "we'd rather risk our club entering administration than sacrifice sporting integrity"?

In fairness that'd be a rather stupid thing to do, on 3 counts

[1] many people wouldn't believe them

[2] they'd be vulnerable to marginalisation from retorts like "look how unrealistic and irresponsible they are"

[3] the moral highground position is founded on Rangers being unable to meet their debts being wrong, yet they'd be advocating their own clubs moving toward becoming unable to meet their debts

so that particular approach would be foolish through its vulnerability.

Edited May 6, 2012 by HibeeJibee

[kiddy]

SPL board can't win over Rangers decision - Stephen Thompson

Tannadice manager Peter Houston told reporters after his team's 1-0 win over Celtic that he favoured Rangers being in the top league.

"I think we need to keep Rangers in the SPL," he said.

"Supporters all over the country will disagree with me but being at the sharp end of it, with regards what it could do for Scottish football, we need them.

"If £600,000 was cut off my budget, I would have hardly anything left.

"I am just being honest. Rangers have to be punished, how I don't know but it wouldn't help us for Rangers to drop into the Third Division."

If you were relegated, you'd still hardly have anything left Houstie.

It's what's called culling your squad, to balance the books, & is exactly what relegated sides are faced with & results in playing a team full of yougsters.

[Paquis]

I'm not sure where that guy got his figures from. Celtic's finances are ok. Not spectacularly profitable or anything, and we've had a few years of falling turnover thanks to being crap in Europe, but our debt is something miniscule like 600k, and we're run in a sustainable way, trying to develop players and sell them on for a profit. We would be able to cut our cloth to suit any loss of money from not having Rangers around relatively easily (and our board would love any excuse to cut back on squad investment even further). A few other clubs would probably thrive in that event - well run clubs like St Mirren don't really need us or Rangers and would probably get bigger gates. It's the guys like Dundee Utd, Killie and Hearts we have to worry about. If some clubs can't cope financially without both us and Rangers being around then so be it, they need to suffer too - it's a disaster if the worst run clubs in the country hold the rest of us to ransom in that way.

The figures came from the Celtic Annual Reports. There is a five year summary at the back of each with net profit/loss figures so all it takes is a few reports (they are available online) and a calculator (not a Seville one).

I didn't look too closely at Celtic's debt because I have never considered debt to be particularly relevant. In my view, profit and loss are far more important. However, just to put your assertion into perspective, Celtic announced in February of 2011 that they had a £9M bank debt. In addition to this you have to add Trade debt to the calculation so the actual figure will be quite a lot higher.

Hope this helps.

[mrpaddyx]

I've been away today and the thread has grown an eye-watering several dozen pages in the interim - but from what I gather we now have Thompson and Johnstone sounding (a bit) like they're minded towards an accomodation... something we've previously heard from Steven Brown... and Yorkston saying he's against that.

In all cases it's likely down to self-interest. Even in Yorkston's position, it's the self-interest of them going down anyway, and perhaps being saved if Rangers aren't.

Lawell won't comment as it'd put him in a pickle. St Mirren + Motherwell are in difficult situations due to potential fan takeovers.

MadVlad is, well, mad and unpredictable.

It's the positions of Stewart Milne and Rod Petrie which would/will be most interesting, IMO.

I've no actual insight into this but I get the feeling he would love to see the Old Firm fail in a spectacular way.