Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Still, you had a good innings at it. Nice try, but another fail. I rarely red dot people. I prefer to tell them if I disagree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Nope, he tried to replace it with another flag which he thought would have caused offense. The story could only be better if the guys who planted the tricolours had drowned as well. Given that part of Bessbrook is overwhelmingly loyalist then who would it offend? Again, not an excuse for flag waving, I'm already on record as saying I would ban all of this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Given that part of Bessbrook is overwhelmingly loyalist then who would it offend? Again, not an excuse for flag waving, I'm already on record as saying I would ban all of this nonsense. If its considered offensive in one area of the country it must be considered offensive in all of the country, and vice-versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I've just had a look at Beesbrook on Google maps and this looks a bit strange. Assuming I've got the right pond the Island is only 20m from the forest on the east shore and barely 50 from the north and south This is an inland body or water so there will be no strong currents or waves and in late July the water temperature wont be too cold. This is going to be about as difficult as doing a length of the Serpentine Lido in Hyde Park I suspect we're not being told the full story I'm not so sure mate - I went into the water at Aberdour last Thursday, which was an absolute scorcher of a day, and my balls were acquainting themselves with my rib cage as soon as I got to a certain depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 If its considered offensive in one area of the country it must be considered offensive in all of the country, and vice-versa. Sorry, can't see the logic. Republican banners and flags are offensive in Loyalist areas and the reverse is equally true for Loyalist symbols in Nationalist areas. I don't really hold with flags as they are just coloured pieces of cloth, but I am against those who try to cause gratuitous offence to the "other" community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Sorry, can't see the logic. Republican banners and flags are offensive in Loyalist areas and the reverse is equally true for Loyalist symbols in Nationalist areas. I don't really hold with flags as they are just coloured pieces of cloth, but I am against those who try to cause gratuitous offence to the "other" community. I do believe neither UJ or Irish tricolour are offensive. In theory they should be seen as nothing more than support of a united Ireland or NI remaining as part of the UK. These are political expressions that people are entitled to make, someone is entitled to make that expression regardless of the apparent believes of those in the surrounding area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Sorry, can't see the logic. Republican banners and flags are offensive in Loyalist areas and the reverse is equally true for Loyalist symbols in Nationalist areas. I don't really hold with flags as they are just coloured pieces of cloth, but I am against those who try to cause gratuitous offence to the "other" community. Spot on. 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I do believe neither UJ or Irish tricolour are offensive. In theory they should be seen as nothing more than support of a united Ireland or NI remaining as part of the UK. These are political expressions that people are entitled to make, someone is entitled to make that expression regardless of the apparent believes of those in the surrounding area. And I do believe in Santa. Get real. Someone putting a tricolour up somewhere on the Shankill Road is designed solely to provoke the locals and cause offense, as would some idiot putting a Union Flag up on the Falls Road. They are not offensive in areas where they should be, but provocation is unnecessary, so that is where they should remain. Alternatively, I would ban the damned things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 And I do believe in Santa. Get real. Someone putting a tricolour up somewhere on the Shankill Road is designed solely to provoke the locals and cause offense, as would some idiot putting a Union Flag up on the Falls Road. They are not offensive in areas where they should be, but provocation is unnecessary, so that is where they should remain. Alternatively, I would ban the damned things. If someone is putting them up in public areas they should be removed obviously, but then it doesn't matter what it is. It could be a rainbow flag or a peace flag and they should still be removed. But if put up on private property, with the owners consent then they should stay. Or is someone not allowed an opinion different to their neighbours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 If someone is putting them up in public areas they should be removed obviously, but then it doesn't matter what it is. It could be a rainbow flag or a peace flag and they should still be removed. But if put up on private property, with the owners consent then they should stay. Or is someone not allowed an opinion different to their neighbours? If I lived a mile up the road, there is no way I'd have a union flag flying, private property or not (I don't have a flag flying anyway). None of the protestants living on that side of the village fly a flag. So the answer to your bolded query is - "Probably not in a public manner." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 ...But if put up on private property, with the owners consent then they should stay. Or is someone not allowed an opinion different to their neighbours? Even when deliberately put there to intimidate primary school pupils as had happened on occasion (people from both sides have been guilty of it)? The old Flags and Emblems Act put the onus on the RUC to remove any flag whether on public or private property that was unfurled in a way that was likely to cause a breach of the peace. If that was still on the books the PSNI would have dealt with this incident and the old guy would not have drowned. The only problem with that legislation was that the Union Flag was exempted, so it was viewed as not being an even-handed piece of legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 If I lived a mile up the road, there is no way I'd have a union flag flying, private property or not (I don't have a flag flying anyway). None of the protestants living on that side of the village fly a flag. So the answer to your bolded query is - "Probably not in a public manner." But that is surely because they are simpleton scumbags would would react? If someone in that area was to put up a Union jack and the local pond life react then i don't think it is the person flying the flag who is at fault in the slightest, it is not their responsibility to not offend scumbags. Even when deliberately put there to intimidate primary school pupils as had happened on occasion (people from both sides have been guilty of it)? The old Flags and Emblems Act put the onus on the RUC to remove any flag whether on public or private property that was unfurled in a way that was likely to cause a breach of the peace. If that was still on the books the PSNI would have dealt with this incident and the old guy would not have drowned. The only problem with that legislation was that the Union Flag was exempted, so it was viewed as not being an even-handed piece of legislation. Intimidate school children? I think the baying mob had slightly more to do with that than a flag. I don't think it's unreasonable to allow the police to remove offencive/intimidating flags, I do think it's unreasonable for flags that mearly represent a common political view to be considered as either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 The story is, this man died because just the sight of a flag upset him so much he put his life on the line What a tragic way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 The story is, this man died because just the sight of a flag upset him so much he put his life on the line What a tragic way to go Think of it another way mate, an idiot was wound up by another group of idiots and then died as he tried to wind up the other sides idiots, I know this sounds harsh but my tolerance of people like this is extremely low . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Which is why people should not put flags up in places that offend their "neighbours". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 OURRRR COMMUNITAAAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Patter just as shite as Missus Bunfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Which is why people should not put flags up in places that offend their "neighbours". That's why some people put up flags in the first place. I would say "annoy" rather than "offend", a lot of this "being offended" is utter balls. In our local town the top half of the town always has Irish Tricolours and Starry Ploughs decorating the lamp posts, doesn't "offend" me, I just don't shop (much) at that end of the town. Our local Unionist councillor said they (the flags) didn't offend him either - not quite sure what his agenda was . Paradoxically, the republican village up the road from us very seldom has tricolours flying, they're obviously comfortable enough in their identity without having to advertise it and there's none of "the other side" to annoy up there, anyway. Mind you, they have a wall of remembrance to dead martyrs/patriots/terrorists/criminals (delete as appropriate) outside their Sinn Fein hall, which is probably more of an offence than flags flying sporadically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 yep ,it's about sticking 2 fingers up to the other side as much as anything, the guy who drowned wasn't annoyed about a flag being there, just that it wasn't his flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaDundee Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Mind you, they have a wall of remembrance to dead martyrs/patriots/terrorists/criminals (delete as appropriate) outside their Sinn Fein hall, which is probably more of an offence than flags flying sporadically. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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