Howlin' Wilf Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 If we can take the emotions surrounding Brabco out of the equation for a bit, it seems to me that finance may be a major problem in all of this. Dumbarton has seen an explosion in new house building over the last decade, and you have to wonder if there is a market for even more. Presumably if there was then someone would have developed the other side of Castle Road. Apparently several of the Turnberry flats on Castlegreen Street are now on the rental market as the departing owners could not sell them, and that's at a time when interest rates have been at a historical low, rates which are very likely to be moving upwards again just as Brabco/Denny Homes are likely to be laying bricks. So, the key point. If the BBS site was worth say £4M in 2007, there is absolutely no certainty it will be worth £2.5M in 2015; it will be worth exactly and only what the market is willing to pay. All of which matters, as that figure might not even cover Phase One, never mind Brabco skimming a wedge. But Denny's homes are to build on half the land. They're getting it cheap..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getcooperon Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 It's perhaps noteworthy that the few Sons fans on here who have spoken out in defence on Brabco are the older few who have some relationship with the Hosie family. Maybe if we were all friends with the Brabco chaps we would all be a bit more comfortable, but since the majority are perfect strangers with them, I'd suggest that being skeptical is a natural reaction when plans are afoot but no-one on the plan-makers' side has seen fit to tell those of us who aren't on first name terms with them just why they feel this plan is necessary. Great post. I don't doubt some people on the board are committed sons fans. The reality though is they are also representatives of the majority shareholder Brabco and should expect to have to answer difficult questions on this issue. Some aspects of the current stewardship of the club including, as others have pointed out, absence of an agm over the past three years, mean it's no surprise people have concerns. When it comes to a multi million investment proposal with significant implications for the club, good or bad, then the type of stewardship we have been used to just isn't acceptable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Mike Rankine, if they don't want criticised by football fans then buying a football club was a rather stupid thing to do. If they're going to have a public consultation on it then they need to expect people will pick it apart, rightly. You think maybe if they did speak to fans some of us wouldn't be so quick to criticise but it looks to me like they don't actually care for the football team at all, which leads to worries about where that leaves the team at the end of it all. If they didn't It's perhaps noteworthy that the few Sons fans on here who have spoken out in defence on Brabco are the older few who have some relationship with the Hosie family. Maybe if we were all friends with the Brabco chaps we would all be a bit more comfortable, but since the majority are perfect strangers with them, I'd suggest that being skeptical is a natural reaction when plans are afoot but no-one on the plan-makers' side has seen fit to tell those of us who aren't on first name terms with them just why they feel this plan is necessary. I have met Calum Hosie once. I shook his hand and said hello. I don't know the man at all. Neither do I know Mr Stainton his co director. I know Colin Hosie well but he is nothing to do with Brabco and frankly most Sons fans over 40 know Colin. He's a good guy and a Sons fan. I have not 'spoken in defence of Brabco' I have no relationship whatsoever with the Hosie family. I know Gilbert Lawrie and whilst I've had my differences with him over the years would trust him 100% not to act against the interests of DFC. He's a friend of mine - sorry about that. I also know Alan Findlay as a friend too and would have the same level of trust - Sonstrust if you like in him to protect the club's interest. It was Alan and I who conducted the negotiations to get a Sonstrust director on the board. It took six Wednesday evenings as I recall. The club's negotiators were then club secretary John Benn and....Colin Hosie. If Alan is reading this he can confirm that the negotiations were lengthy and not without problems and hurdles. However, ultimately their success was down to open minds and compromise - on both sides. It must actually be a good thing that we have two guys (Gilbert and Alan) with possibly differing views on the direction forward but both with the club's interests at heart. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Great post. I don't doubt some people on the board are committed sons fans. The reality though is they are also representatives of the majority shareholder Brabco and should expect to have to answer difficult questions on this issue. Some aspects of the current stewardship of the club including, as others have pointed out, absence of an agm over the past three years, mean it's no surprise people have concerns. When it comes to a multi million investment proposal with significant implications for the club, good or bad, then the type of stewardship we have been used to just isn't acceptable. There is no direct Brabco representation on the Dumbarton FC board. Edited November 23, 2014 by Howlin' Wilf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 If they didn't I have met Calum Hosie once. I shook his hand and said hello. I don't know the man at all. Neither do I know Mr Stainton his co director. I know Colin Hosie well but he is nothing to do with Brabco and frankly most Sons fans over 40 know Colin. He's a good guy and a Sons fan. I have not 'spoken in defence of Brabco' I have no relationship whatsoever with the Hosie family. I know Gilbert Lawrie and whilst I've had my differences with him over the years would trust him 100% not to act against the interests of DFC. He's a friend of mine - sorry about that. I also know Alan Findlay as a friend too and would have the same level of trust - Sonstrust if you like in him to protect the club's interest. It was Alan and I who conducted the negotiations to get a Sonstrust director on the board. It took six Wednesday evenings as I recall. The club's negotiators were then club secretary John Benn and....Colin Hosie. If Alan is reading this he can confirm that the negotiations were lengthy and not without problems and hurdles. However, ultimately their success was down to open minds and compromise - on both sides. It must actually be a good thing that we have two guys (Gilbert and Alan) with possibly differing views on the direction forward but both with the club's interests at heart. There's no need to apologise, I wasn't critiscising you. I was simply giving some perspective to clarify why the majority of us are somewhat suspicious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getcooperon Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 There is no direct Brabco representation on the Dumbarton FC board. Ok I stand corrected. The point though is that Brabco are the movers on this issue and hold the cards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rankine Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Yes, I'm one of the older fans. No, I'm not friends with any of the movers and shakers. I don't personally know Gilbert Lawrie or the Hosies. Lastly, I'm not defending Brabco. If you reread my first post tonight I talk about remaining vigilant and set out the circumstances under which I would support the move. Under no circumstances am I suggesting we have blind faith and simply accept what we're given. However, what I am speaking up against is the blind cynicism where certain Dumbarton fans are always looking for problems and conspiracies. I judge people by their actions and, as a long time supporter who has seen many charlatans come and go, I see our club being run relatively well at present by the Lawries, Hosies, Jardines and Findlays of this world. Until they do something to undermine that they will have my encouragement and support to explore relocation options in the long term interests of our club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 DFC website currently down = Brabco conspiracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 DFC website currently down = Brabco conspiracy. Wish I hadn't made my tinfoil hat out of the stuff from the grill, it's making my head awful greasy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Wish I hadn't made my tinfoil hat out of the stuff from the grill, it's making my head awful greasy. It's back up now anyway, get the Pantene ProV out, you're worth it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yes, I'm one of the older fans. No, I'm not friends with any of the movers and shakers. I don't personally know Gilbert Lawrie or the Hosies. Lastly, I'm not defending Brabco. If you reread my first post tonight I talk about remaining vigilant and set out the circumstances under which I would support the move. Under no circumstances am I suggesting we have blind faith and simply accept what we're given. However, what I am speaking up against is the blind cynicism where certain Dumbarton fans are always looking for problems and conspiracies. I judge people by their actions and, as a long time supporter who has seen many charlatans come and go, I see our club being run relatively well at present by the Lawries, Hosies, Jardines and Findlays of this world. Until they do something to undermine that they will have my encouragement and support to explore relocation options in the long term interests of our club. Now I really don't know you you are...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdrockfromtheSon Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Now I really don't know you you are...... Yes you do - he's even put his photo in his Avatar so we can recognise him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a bankie Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Is the meeting open to all? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Is the meeting open to all? Aye, pretty sure it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Is the meeting open to all? Yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Livi deducted 5 points http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/livingston-charged-by-spfl/ Pleasing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny graham Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I know that being a union member for many decades has made me distrustful of these kind of question and answer meetings but inevitably some untruths and half truths will be forwarded to try and appease any awkward questions. I believe most in attendance are honourable men. However it is only human nature to accentuate the positive and gloss over the negative. It is important to be persistent with questioning but not to become abusive . Keep emotions in check and when pressing details let several people be involved . If only one keeps pressuring he will be labelled a troublemaker. There will be some of the older ones,you know who they are by the size of their egos,who will assume they know all. Don't believe them . Everybody's point is valid. Don't be fobbed off by anyone and hopefully this meeting can move the sons forward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rankine Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Now I really don't know you you are...... Ha ha...as well as following similar, obscure Glasgow bands and supporting the Sons, I recently discovered we have a mutual friend! A Burns loving local comedian who you invited up to do a turn at the Clyde Bar! It's a small world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rankine Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 It is important to be persistent with questioning but not to become abusive.There will be some of the older ones,you know who they are by the size of their egos,who will assume they know all. Don't believe them . Everybody's point is valid. Couldn't agree more with the above, although large egos aren't the sole preserve of the older fans! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ha ha...as well as following similar, obscure Glasgow bands and supporting the Sons, I recently discovered we have a mutual friend! A Burns loving local comedian who you invited up to do a turn at the Clyde Bar! It's a small world. Frank Kelly! a very, very funny lad indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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