Sweet Pete Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 That, my young friend, is the absolute crux of the matter, ie what is the future ownership of the club ? I note too people are asking about Trust involvement/knowledge on this issue, presumably specifically referring to the Community Director. Let's just say that communication at DFC Board level can be something of a Venn diagram, and Board meetings are sometimes held at odd times, eg weekday afternoons, when everyone can't attend. I'm sure there's nothing sinister in it. You're correct, of course, the Trust's nominated Board member is not always privy, nor necessarily always able to steer things in the fans' preferred destination. But people are asking simply because the Trust has Boardroom level representation, so it's natural that they would look that way for answers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Trust have a post up on sonstrust.net 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 My main point was that this is nothing new. The proposal of a ground at Dalmoak is well known and planning for houses at the Rock is nothing new either. Denny Homes is a related company to Brabco and whether or not the current owners would be interested after they have sold the ground who knows. What you can't deny is that since they have owned the club we have certainly been headed in the right direction. We would not be where we are now if Neil Rankine was still the owner. Like you I see no great need to move ground and agree it is unlikely the profit from a sale would be put back in to the club. But if we were to get a new and better stadium would that make it worth while ? For example if we were to reach the play offs and win them the Rock's capacity is not really good enough for the premiership. Would you not be looking for a bigger ground then ? And while getting in to the premiership might seem like fantasy land I would suggest that this season would have seemed like fantasy land if someone had suggested three years ago that we would be where we are now. You've made a key point. Brabco's involvement was the quid pro quo for getting rid of Rankine. He had to be bought out if the club was ever going to progress and the money had to come from somewhere. And so progress has followed under the current board's stewardship and that of Chief Exec Gilbert Lawrie appointed to that position after Brabco's investment. Gilbert is a Sons fan of nearly 50 years and a Sonstrust member. It doesn't mean that Brabco shouldn't be subject to scrutiny, but the club does seem to be in much better fettle than it was five or ten years ago. If there were sinister motives afoot from Brabco, I doubt very much that the club would be in their current position. An asset stripper would run the club down and sell the stadium, not build it up and plan a new one. If it's a case of a new stadium and Brabco get a return on their investment through it I don't have a particular problem with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel wickson Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Isn't there something about a "golden share" re any sale of the current stadium, or is that no longer applicable? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 But we don't need a "BETTER" stadium! That's the bleedin' point. There's always room for imrovement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Isn't there something about a "golden share" re any sale of the current stadium, or is that no longer applicable? It's applicable but why would those holding it apply a veto if there were a definite alternative stadium? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I would like to know if the Sonstrust board member was at any meetings in relation to this. If no, then why not, and if yes, why weren't we told? He has responsibilities as a board member as well as to Sonstrust and the supporters. There are things which simply can't be publicly disclosed too soon as they may be commercially sensitive. This is particularly so when things are at a planning stage. It's an onerous responsibility and I think he does very well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Any move that takes Dumbarton out of the town is bad for the club. Our ground is big enough for our current needs and we don't look to be increasing our attendances at a rate that would necessitate a bigger ground. We're easy to get to for the majority of our local fan base - close to 2 train stations, several bus routes and a short walk to the town centre. There's decent road access to the general area. The club doesn't need to move. It's time for some honesty from our owners. Be honest about what their intentions are for the club and be honest about what the impact is going to be on the fans. We all know that any deal will profit the owners first and any benefits to the club will be a very distant concern - at least some transparency would help fans get a handle on what to expect in the next few years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Quitely Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 It's applicable but why would those holding it apply a veto if there were a definite alternative stadium? By 'definite' I take it you mean a built, finished and fit-for-purpose stadium allowing a straight transition without lodging at Cliftonhill or wherever. That being the case and allowing for much improved facilities then despite the dreadful location I'd probably go for it. As regards the Community Director he has to the best of my knowledge carried out his role scrupulously and with due discretion. Despite that he has not been kept fully in the communications loop, and that is both disappointing and disconcerting. The Board collectively deserves great credit for the football side of things in recent times, and if Brabco have contributed to that then fine and dandy. Let's not get all dewy-eyed over Brabco however, their raison d'etre would remain the pursuit of profit from the land sale no matter what was DFC's league position. And should they achieve that what happens then to the ownership of DFC ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 By 'definite' I take it you mean a built, finished and fit-for-purpose stadium allowing a straight transition without lodging at Cliftonhill or wherever. That being the case and allowing for much improved facilities then despite the dreadful location I'd probably go for it. As regards the Community Director he has to the best of my knowledge carried out his role scrupulously and with due discretion. Despite that he has not been kept fully in the communications loop, and that is both disappointing and disconcerting. The Board collectively deserves great credit for the football side of things in recent times, and if Brabco have contributed to that then fine and dandy. Let's not get all dewy-eyed over Brabco however, their raison d'etre would remain the pursuit of profit from the land sale no matter what was DFC's league position. And should they achieve that what happens then to the ownership of DFC ? That's not a bad definition of definite but I simply don't know the practicalities involved. I think though that funding and permissions would at least have to be in place before any sale. I'm certainly not dewy eyed over Brabco, I was just judging them by their actions thus far. They would presumably retain their share or sell it but that happens at football clubs. There have been many owners and boards of DFC in my lifetime and this seems on the face of it to be one of the better administrations. The owner who took us to the Rock walked away with a tidy sum. All Brabco did was buy his investment. He made a profit. They hope to make a profit. C'est la vie. I can't comment on people being in or out of loops but I have already said that the Sonstrust director conducts himself very well in the role. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 By 'definite' I take it you mean a built, finished and fit-for-purpose stadium allowing a straight transition without lodging at Cliftonhill or wherever. That being the case and allowing for much improved facilities then despite the dreadful location I'd probably go for it. As regards the Community Director he has to the best of my knowledge carried out his role scrupulously and with due discretion. Despite that he has not been kept fully in the communications loop, and that is both disappointing and disconcerting. The Board collectively deserves great credit for the football side of things in recent times, and if Brabco have contributed to that then fine and dandy. Let's not get all dewy-eyed over Brabco however, their raison d'etre would remain the pursuit of profit from the land sale no matter what was DFC's league position. And should they achieve that what happens then to the ownership of DFC ? If it does come down to ground sharing then ideally we would look to use the rugby ground at Yoker. It's a decent facility with enough capacity for us and it's easy to access by both road and rail (Scotstounhill station is about a 5 minute walk). Far better than Coatbridge. Only question is whether or not it would stand up to being used twice a week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sting86 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Surely that's Scott smith out at the end of season after playing ct at left back Today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 On the ownership/stadium, put yourself in Mr Brabco's shoes. You've taken over a football club that you didn't really want but was a necessary evil in order to obtain a prime piece of real estate. You sit on that investment and when time is right you look to sell up. You make a healthy profit on the assets and you sit and think about how you spend that profit. Do you A) build the football club a new, state of the art stadium, eating up most of your profit or B) take your profit and dispose of the necessary evil in the quickest way possible. I do wonder which route our kind hearted owners will take. Waken up boys, we have a fight on our hands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Like them or not BRABCO on the face of it and with the help of the local directors and trust have guided the club into a great position. Do we know every single detail about them? No, but do we need to? When they came in we had a owner who didn't want to be there and a team in the 3rd division. When they came in they didn't hide the fact that the end goal was move the club to a new ground and in turn get a return on their investment and get the club to the 1st Div. At that point I thought wasn't sure if 1st div was possible and look where we are now. 5th in the league with a fantastic manager that's been backed by the board. Fan involvement at board level and other levels of the club. Is it perfect? - again no do people mind sets need to change more yes but still in a pretty decent position to be in. On the stadium front it's now well document/ known that expansion where we are isn't possible and commercially we don't have/ get the best from the stadium. If financially possible would you turn down a new community backed stadium maybe 4000 seats with an all weather pitch, bar with the ability to take home and away fans. Bigger commercial opportunity with conference rooms, offices. A gym? Who know the options are endless. Not exactly a transport nightmare either. Easily accessible by car, on a bus route and 20min walk from the town centre? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Fantasy land Sons fan. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Like them or not BRABCO on the face of it and with the help of the local directors and trust have guided the club into a great position. Do we know every single detail about them? No, but do we need to? When they came in we had a owner who didn't want to be there and a team in the 3rd division. When they came in they didn't hide the fact that the end goal was move the club to a new ground and in turn get a return on their investment and get the club to the 1st Div. At that point I thought wasn't sure if 1st div was possible and look where we are now. 5th in the league with a fantastic manager that's been backed by the board. Fan involvement at board level and other levels of the club. Is it perfect? - again no do people mind sets need to change more yes but still in a pretty decent position to be in. On the stadium front it's now well document/ known that expansion where we are isn't possible and commercially we don't have/ get the best from the stadium. If financially possible would you turn down a new community backed stadium maybe 4000 seats with an all weather pitch, bar with the ability to take home and away fans. Bigger commercial opportunity with conference rooms, offices. A gym? Who know the options are endless. Not exactly a transport nightmare either. Easily accessible by car, on a bus route and 20min walk from the town centre? How much are they paying you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Fantasy land Sons fan. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Which part? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 How much are they paying you? Zero. I'm interested what's wrong with what I have said? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Zero. I'm interested what's wrong with what I have said? I'd start with: Do we know every single detail about them? No, but do we need to? Events within Scottish football over the past few years must surely show you that we absolutely need to know more about the owners. As for your suggestion of commercial opportunities, we don't need a 4000 capacity ground and I'd question whether or not there would be sufficient demand for conference facilities to ever make money from them in West Dunbartonshire? Then theres access to the ground itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsanorak Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Some big assumptions being made here, mainly on the initial intentions of the owners and their endgame. I d qccept theres been ownership issues at other clubs, but cant think of a single one where the new owner didnt parade in with the big sell. I like the romantic notion that brabco are dumbarton fans who can see a means to progress the club and make a profit at the same time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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