Sons' sorrow

[Howlin' Wilf]

Have you adjusted for inflation? [emoji14] I guess Murdo was doing two roles and was a huge name, so that makes a bit more sense. With IM, we must have given him more money each time he stayed on.

I’d be massively surprised if any of the players were pushing £600/week, so it would seem odd to pay Aitken more than say a Loy or Forbes. Unless he didn’t have any kind of relegation wage clause? 

 

Being a part-time manager is a much more time consuming and responsible position than simply being a part time player. However, even if I were wrong about Aitken’s remuneration and the amounts were halved, the financial consequences would still be beyond the club at this time.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

 
Being a part-time manager is a much more time consuming and responsible position than simply being a part time player. However, even if I were wrong about Aitken’s remuneration and the amounts were halved, the financial consequences would still be beyond the club at this time.

Perhaps the club have set aside a fund to cover the cost of sacking Aitken? He has been performing very poorly for some time now.

If we've left ourselves in a position where we are literally stuck with a underperfomimg manager then surely questions have to be asked of the board? Especially when John Steele told fans before a recent match that Aitken has 4 or 5 matches to get things right.

[++Ammo - Airdrie++]

Would Dumbarton FC be Jim Duffy's choice?

An attractive prospect; offers the chance to bring the team back into the Championship and steady our position again. Good move for both parties.

Fwiw I think Duffy would more or less have a free hot with DFC this year as well, for the remaining games he'd have the "not my squad" line, and I'd somehow managing to get into the playoffs it would be a success, he'd then have next summer to build his own squad etc.

[Howlin' Wilf]

Perhaps the club have set aside a fund to cover the cost of sacking Aitken? He has been performing very poorly for some time now.

If we've left ourselves in a position where we are literally stuck with a underperfomimg manager then surely questions have to be asked of the board? Especially when John Steele told fans before a recent match that Aitken has 4 or 5 matches to get things right.

I don’t think you can blame John Steele who stepped in to sort out a boardroom dogs’ dinner. From what I’m picking up, the board are involved in financial firefighting. The very idea of a contingency fund in such circumstances is fantasy. We are a club with no money and with around £300k of contingent debt staring us in the face. As for the 4 or 5 games deadline, that may have been a spontaneous verbal gamble based on the belief that things would improve. Easy to sack the manager, another matter entirely to fund his exit and offer a package to any new boss.

There have already been two financial rabbits pulled from the hat since relegation. One is the sponsorship by C and G and the other is some much needed assistance from an unlikely source.

Going by the attendance figure on Saturday, if one deducts season tickets, gate receipts would be in the region of £6,000. That, every fortnight during nine months of the season doesn’t leave anything. A squad of 17 on what? £200 a week is £3400 for a start.

[Johnny Red]

Perhaps the club have set aside a fund to cover the cost of sacking Aitken? He has been performing very poorly for some time now.

If we've left ourselves in a position where we are literally stuck with a underperfomimg manager then surely questions have to be asked of the board? Especially when John Steele told fans before a recent match that Aitken has 4 or 5 matches to get things right.

In any other walk of life, job security is linked to performance targets, is this not the case in football?

If I was guff at my job, I wouldn’t expect to be taken in by my manager and paid a years’ salary to leave.

Is it possible to set football managers targets at the start of the year and at least they can be measured transparently on these. Then, if they were underperforming they would be shown the door like any other person in their day job. Or is this just fantasy too?

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Johnny Red said:

 

In any other walk of life, job security is linked to performance targets, is this not the case in football?

If I was guff at my job, I wouldn’t expect to be taken in by my manager and paid a years’ salary to leave.

Is it possible to set football managers targets at the start of the year and at least they can be measured transparently on these. Then, if they were underperforming they would be shown the door like any other person in their day job. Or is this just fantasy too?

 

Of course targets are set for managers, it's just that whether you're on target or not could be argued throughout the season.  For example, right now Stevie could quite easily say that whilst we're not in the position we want to be (not lower than 4th) we are only 2 points off that spot and we've had a whole host of injuries which has stopped him from achieving that. I'm sure in your job if there were circumstances you felt were preventing you from carrying out your job to the best of your ability you would argue that too. I'm also sure that in your job that if you'd done a good job for 2 years and hit (almost) all targets and then you had a 6 month period where you were just short of targets (which if we're being honest that's the reality of it regardless of our "style of play") you would be looking for your whole performance to be considered rather than just the last 6 months. Stevie could also point to the last time he was in this division with Stranraer and show that he's set precedent for turning things around, he went on a honking 12 game run (IIRC) at the start of the season and by May they were basically having a shout-out for the title with Morton.  

I wouldn't agree with those arguments if I was John Steele sitting across from Stevie, but it's certainly how Aitken would argue his case. "Underperformance" can be a subjective thing at times.

Edited October 3, 2018 by The Moonster

[Howlin' Wilf]

In any other walk of life, job security is linked to performance targets, is this not the case in football?*

**If I was guff at my job, I wouldn’t expect to be taken in by my manager and paid a years’ salary to leave.

*** Is it possible to set football managers targets at the start of the year and at least they can be measured transparently on these. Then, if they were underperforming they would be shown the door like any other person in their day job. Or is this just fantasy too?

* Have you ever tried to sack somebody for not reaching a performance target?

**You would if you had signed a fixed term contract with stated remuneration

***The average tenure of. Dumbarton FC manager is 18 months and the most common reason for leaving is dismissal

[O'Kelly Isley III]

It's a hell of a mess, that's for sure, and there can't be many other football clubs in the UK whose majority shareholder would view the liquidation of their asset with glee - that is whate I believe Brabco 's likely attitude to be in the wake of the  collapse of the Dalmoak scheme.

It has therefore fallen on the 'local' Directors to steady the ship, and to be honest there is little that Ican see that they have done wrong so far; however as we are now on 'targets' perhaps the Board should go as we failed to shift the desired number of season tickets ?

Leaving targets aside then, it is my personal view that Stevie's position is fast becoming untenable but crucially it depends on whether he shares that view.  As I posted earlier, he can exit on reasonably amicable terms with his dignity intact or he can dig his heels in.  The latter path could be disastrous for both the club and himself, as it was the demanding of every thin dime from another individual that almost took the club under during the summer - Wilf has already alluded to this.

On the park I see only more of the same should SA try to ride things out; there is a malaise which is affecting morale, confidence, teamwork which can't be explained solely by the injury crisis.  FWIW, in 60 years of supporting Sons I can never remember anything like this, it's totally off the scale, and you begin to question the probabilities.

In the context of all of this, talk of Duffy, McIntyre and whoever is a bit fanciful.  Never mind the financial iomplications, we still have a Manager in a job and the immediate priority for the Board is how to best  (and at least outlay) arrest the slide into Division Two.

We also have only one home, ie revenue-gathering, fixture in the nest five weeks.

 

[The Moonster]

4 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

 

We also have only one home, ie revenue-gathering, fixture in the nest five weeks.

 

Hence why its important that all Sons fans who can make it buy a ticket to the upcoming Comedy Night

 

[Nowhereman]

2 hours ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

 

* Have you ever tried to sack somebody for not reaching a performance target?

**You would if you had signed a fixed term contract with stated remuneration

***The average tenure of. Dumbarton FC manager is 18 months and the most common reason for leaving is dismissal

 

This. It is very difficult to sack someone without financial recompense to the employee.

[Jan Vojáček]

24 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

It's a hell of a mess, that's for sure, and there can't be many other football clubs in the UK whose majority shareholder would view the liquidation of their asset with glee - that is whate I believe Brabco 's likely attitude to be in the wake of the  collapse of the Dalmoak scheme.

It has therefore fallen on the 'local' Directors to steady the ship, and to be honest there is little that Ican see that they have done wrong so far; however as we are now on 'targets' perhaps the Board should go as we failed to shift the desired number of season tickets ?

Leaving targets aside then, it is my personal view that Stevie's position is fast becoming untenable but crucially it depends on whether he shares that view.  As I posted earlier, he can exit on reasonably amicable terms with his dignity intact or he can dig his heels in.  The latter path could be disastrous for both the club and himself, as it was the demanding of every thin dime from another individual that almost took the club under during the summer - Wilf has already alluded to this.

On the park I see only more of the same should SA try to ride things out; there is a malaise which is affecting morale, confidence, teamwork which can't be explained solely by the injury crisis.  FWIW, in 60 years of supporting Sons I can never remember anything like this, it's totally off the scale, and you begin to question the probabilities.

In the context of all of this, talk of Duffy, McIntyre and whoever is a bit fanciful.  Never mind the financial iomplications, we still have a Manager in a job and the immediate priority for the Board is how to best  (and at least outlay) arrest the slide into Division Two.

We also have only one home, ie revenue-gathering, fixture in the next five weeks.

The thing that worries me about that is what the turnout will look like if we stick with Stevie and the form stays the same. 

It was very, very quiet in the home end on Saturday - and that was on the back of a home win and a draw. If we lose the next two games and Stevie remains in charge I can see a single figure number of walk-ups in the home end. Doubt East Fife will bring many either, even taking into account their good form.

[pleslie99]

Hence why its important that all Sons fans who can make it buy a ticket to the upcoming Comedy Night [emoji6]
 

I thought I bought a weekly ticket to a comedy show when I watch Stevie set out the team each week.......

I'm here all week and available for the comedy night if one of the acts falls ill!

[albundy]

This. It is very difficult to sack someone without financial recompense to the employee.

A lot will depend on what is in the contract which I doubt anyone has access to.

 

In most permanent and contract jobs there is a notice period which is required to be served regardless of which party invokes it. I don't think this is case in football.

 

The only time a termination is allowed with no recompense is under a breach of contract and again the devil will be in the detail of the contract.

 

I think what I'm saying is if your desperate, fund a night of ching and hookers for Stevie and tip off the national press. That way he gets some enjoyment out of it.

 

[Howlin' Wilf]

7 hours ago, albundy said:

 

I think what I'm saying is if your desperate,

 

Outa here with you're Facebook shite.

[the snudge]

Jim Duffy to Queens Park? Looks like we've missed an opportunity/dodged a bullet (delete as appropriate). 

[Jan Vojáček]

4 minutes ago, the snudge said:

Jim Duffy to Queens Park? Looks like we've missed an opportunity/dodged a bullet (delete as appropriate). 

Dang.

I wonder if McPherson might leave us to follow him.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I think that puts to bed any suggestion that he was outwith our reach.

[the snudge]

I don't think he's confirmed but looking likely

[lorenzo71]

Club need to hijack this NOW.Get Duffy in for the love of God.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Club need to hijack this NOW.Get Duffy in for the love of God.

I don't think Duffy is the be all and end all tbh. I certainly wouldn't be running to hijack any deals for him.

There are plenty of options out there who could come in, Queens Park had over 30 applicants for example. I have absolutely zero doubt we are an attractive prospect for potential managers and we'll get plenty of interest in the position.